HarrogateKnights Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said: It also decries players of game time, tell me HK be honest, if you were at a club trained your backside off and the coach approches you and says sorry standing you down this week, we have got X from our DR partner who needs a game this week, my reaction would be "transfer list please and screw you" DR is abhorrent, even the Fev fans I have spoke to concur. Agreed on that point to be fair. The reserves should have helped that point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said: DR was a poorly thought out plan. It could have been policed better, though I still imagine you’d get the same arguments against it. DR will be dominant in the Championship next season whether we like it or not. the scrapping of the reserve league combined with a number of Championship clubs cutting their squad sizes will ensure that even greater movement between SL and the Championship takes place. Personally I don't like it but it will be a reality for most clubs in 2021. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 I believe that many people are really missing the point regarding any club's suitability to participate in SL. It is NOT about the strength, depth or origins of the team, it is about the whole club structure being able to operate according to SL requirements. Not one single current Championship club has the necessary commercial or operating structure to be able to cope at SL level and nor will many of their present facilities conform with SL requirements. Whilst the ideal of achieving promotion based entirely upon performances on the pitch (just like in pub leagues, in fact) is admirable it fails completely to comprehend the structural and cultural shift that would be required within any club achieving promotion to operate acceptably in SL. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said: I believe that many people are really missing the point regarding any club's suitability to participate in SL. It is NOT about the strength, depth or origins of the team, it is about the whole club structure being able to operate according to SL requirements. Not one single current Championship club has the necessary commercial or operating structure to be able to cope at SL level and nor will many of their present facilities conform with SL requirements. Whilst the ideal of achieving promotion based entirely upon performances on the pitch (just like in pub leagues, in fact) is admirable it fails completely to comprehend the structural and cultural shift that would be required within any club achieving promotion to operate acceptably in SL. At least 4 Championship clubs after the "bedding" in period that some SL clubs have enjoyed could easily attain with the monies awarded emulate or be better than a number of SL clubs. Dewsbury would not be in that list perhaps that is the basis of your concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANO Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 A lot of people keep mentioning London for super league. I wonder can anyone explain the criteria they meet sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 6 hours ago, SL17 said: You have had it drilled into your head that away fans don’t count. Ask any player if away fans count! Away fans should never count in a clubs business model, away fans should be seen as a bonus to the home club. Trying to measure a club on the number of fans it takes to away games is another nonsense, some clubs traditionally take a large percentage of their home fans away, other clubs don't. The logistics of away support is also an issue, also some fixtures have a 'habit' of attracting more away fans, and neutrals, than some others. Clubs should concentrate on what they can try and control and that is the number of people they can get in their ground for every fixture regardless of who they are playing. The days of the smaller clubs surviving by having games against "the big" clubs a few times a season have long gone, anyone thinking that is the way to go is standing at the door of the laughing academy. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelic Cynic Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, DEANO said: A lot of people keep mentioning London for super league. I wonder can anyone explain the criteria they meet On the field they win games. Off the field they have the requisite number of seats. No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANO Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said: On the field they win games. Off the field they have the requisite number of seats. Empty seats sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, SL17 said: It’s a measurement, nothing to do with money. Why do so many fans get on their high horse when words “away fans” pops up? You must excuse me! I didn’t realise only home attendance is measured in the success of a club. What are you on about, it isn't a measure that is reliable in any way shape or form. If it was Leigh would be classed as a success in SL as they had a lot more away supporters in their ground when in SL than when they were in the Championship. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, Padge said: What are you on about, it isn't a measure that is reliable in any way shape or form. If it was Leigh would be classed as a success in SL as they had a lot more away supporters in their ground when in SL than when they were in the Premiership. ' premiership ' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 minute ago, GUBRATS said: ' premiership ' ? Spent to much time discussing Latics. Corrected. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, Padge said: What are you on about, it isn't a measure that is reliable in any way shape or form. If it was Leigh would be classed as a success in SL as they had a lot more away supporters in their ground when in SL than when they were in the Championship. Doesn't everybody ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 minute ago, GUBRATS said: Doesn't everybody ? I think you missed the point or more likely are deliberately swerving around it because I mentioned Leigh. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulwalker71 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said: At least 4 Championship clubs after the "bedding" in period that some SL clubs have enjoyed could easily attain with the monies awarded emulate or be better than a number of SL clubs. Dewsbury would not be in that list perhaps that is the basis of your concern. The problem is that you don’t get a ‘bedding in period’ in the current setup. You get promoted and within 3-4 months you’re in the with big boys and trying to play ‘catch up’. Start badly and you’re suddenly right in the relegation mire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 25 minutes ago, SL17 said: So you take the “away fans” as being profitable to home clubs? But we are not allowed to use that as a measure. Where did I say that, I said clubs should only treat away fans as a bonus, what they are not is a measure of a clubs'success' that notion is stupid. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 5 hours ago, Damien said: The source of what you quoted was this: It is quite clear. With respect, Damien, the Wigman went off on a bit of a tangent. The main thrux was that how many travelling fans a Club can bring to an away game is one measure of a Clubs size and standing in the game, Clubs over reliance on away fans turning up to their home games is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Padge said: I think you missed the point or more likely are deliberately swerving around it because I mentioned Leigh. Would Wigan get less away fans ( and indeed home fans ) in the Championship ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 minute ago, SL17 said: “Away fans should never count in a clubs business model, away fans should be seen as a bonus to the home club. Trying to measure a club on the number of fans it takes to away games is another nonsense“ Yet using away fans to compliment your Leigh gesture is fine, is it? You used away fans as a compliment to the attendance in your measurement. But we shouldn’t use “away fans” as a measurement! Your words.. The point I made about Leigh was showing that you cannot measure success on away fans, you really are hard of understanding. Leigh had more away fans attending when in SL than when in the Championship, they were a failure on the field and off it. More away fans does not a successful club make. 1 minute ago, GUBRATS said: Would Wigan get less away fans ( and indeed home fans ) in the Championship ? In the only season Wigan were relegated their home average was almost the same as the previous and I mean within a number smaller than 10. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 A reminder my first post on this bit of the subject was that you cannot measure all away support equally. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, SL17 said: Don’t bow down. If they can’t be bothered to read the thread. They shouldn’t post. This is rich coming from you. Whose they anyway? Anyone whose not a Leigh fan? You don't half give your club a bad name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Padge said: The point I made about Leigh was showing that you cannot measure success on away fans, you really are hard of understanding. Leigh had more away fans attending when in SL than when in the Championship, they were a failure on the field and off it. More away fans does not a successful club make. In the only season Wigan were relegated their home average was almost the same as the previous and I mean within a number smaller than 10. Leigh also had more home fans attend when in SL than in the Championship , all that matters is they had more people pay to watch them than did in the Championship Given Wigan's last holiday from the top tier was over 35 years ago , your assertion that their attendances would not suffer has little merit Bottom line is more people will pay to watch a club in SL than in the Championship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadShotKeen Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 The sport in this country will never get anywhere until it gets rid of P&R, undergoes a consolidation at elite level in its heartlands (eg mergers in Hull, West Yorks, Cheshire and Cumbria) and undertakes genuine expansion into new high potential areas. None of this is without risk, naturally, but the alternative is simply watching the sport slowly die along the M62 (as currently). Such actions as the merger of the 2 Hull academies in order to temporarily bolster the rickety finances of the 2 pro sides amounts to nothing less than deliberate vandalism of the sport's player supply system (and hence future) via a rose-tinted nostalgia for a time that isn't ever returning and quite frankly no-one should clamour for. Me? I want to see elite sides from Leeds, Hull, Cumbria and Cheshire (to name a few) playing elite sides from London, Birmingham, Toronto, New York etc. in an NRL-style level-playing field franchised system. This then allows for this new league to directly hook-up with NRL to play inter-conference regular season games and create a genuine "winner takes all" Grand Final between the 2 comp winners. Tell me this can't happen and I tell you you're both a defeatist and a parochial elitist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 minute ago, DeadShotKeen said: The sport in this country will never get anywhere until it gets rid of P&R, undergoes a consolidation at elite level in its heartlands (eg mergers in Hull, West Yorks, Cheshire and Cumbria) and undertakes genuine expansion into new high potential areas. None of this is without risk, naturally, but the alternative is simply watching the sport slowly die along the M62 (as currently). Such actions as the merger of the 2 Hull academies in order to temporarily bolster the rickety finances of the 2 pro sides amounts to nothing less than deliberate vandalism of the sport's player supply system (and hence future) via a rose-tinted nostalgia for a time that isn't ever returning and quite frankly no-one should clamour for. Me? I want to see elite sides from Leeds, Hull, Cumbria and Cheshire (to name a few) playing elite sides from London, Birmingham, Toronto, New York etc. in an NRL-style level-playing field franchised system. This then allows for this new league to directly hook-up with NRL to play inter-conference regular season games and create a genuine "winner takes all" Grand Final between the 2 comp winners. Tell me this can't happen and I tell you you're both a defeatist and a parochial elitist. It can't happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, Padge said: A reminder my first post on this bit of the subject was that you cannot measure all away support equally. Well true, you cannot measure away Support on a Thursday Night, you cannot measure away Support when the Atlantic Ocean is between you and all your opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadShotKeen Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: It can't happen Oh OK. Thanks for clearing that up. It either will happen or the sport will die over here and we'll just be left with NRL. That's the reality of it, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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