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RFL to scrap promotion and relegation

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5 hours ago, Griff said:

I dunno.  How did Lahndon and Paris get into $uperleague in 1996 ?

They kicked Featherstone and Salford out, simples.

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Super League (twelve teams) - 23 games (11 H&A and a Magic Weekend), top 4/5 play-off and bottom relegated. 

Championship (ten teams) - 19 games (9 H&A and a Summer Bash), top 3/4 play-off, bottom relegated and the season ends in June/July. 

League One (fifteen teams) - three conferences of five, play each team in your conference home and away (8 game) and play the other conferences once (10 games, 18 overall). Top three teams qualify for the play-off’s with the best placed 2nd team. 

Super League plays fewer games because 29 is frankly absurd and too much of the same thing over and over. Also means we can have a proper international window in the season and stop throwing stones from our glass house at Australia, who do have mid-season internationals and play games. Also enough space in the calendar to try 9s if that’s where the game wants to go.

Championship and League One play fewer games to give the Championship winners time to adapt to Super League. The rest of the year can then see lower league teams focus turn to the 1895 Cup, giving teams a guaranteed number of home games and allowing them to have something to play for if they have a poor league season. 

Job’s a good’un. Vote Hela Wigmen as RFL/Super League supremo. 

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9 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Vote Hela Wigmen as RFL/Super League supremo.

Before casting my vote, I will just wait a few minutes in case someone else comes along and says that your proposals are rubbish. Stranger things have happened.

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18 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Super League (twelve teams) - 23 games (11 H&A and a Magic Weekend), top 4/5 play-off and bottom relegated. 

Championship (ten teams) - 19 games (9 H&A and a Summer Bash), top 3/4 play-off, bottom relegated and the season ends in June/July. 

League One (fifteen teams) - three conferences of five, play each team in your conference home and away (8 game) and play the other conferences once (10 games, 18 overall). Top three teams qualify for the play-off’s with the best placed 2nd team. 

Super League plays fewer games because 29 is frankly absurd and too much of the same thing over and over. Also means we can have a proper international window in the season and stop throwing stones from our glass house at Australia, who do have mid-season internationals and play games. Also enough space in the calendar to try 9s if that’s where the game wants to go.

Championship and League One play fewer games to give the Championship winners time to adapt to Super League. The rest of the year can then see lower league teams focus turn to the 1895 Cup, giving teams a guaranteed number of home games and allowing them to have something to play for if they have a poor league season. 

Job’s a good’un. Vote Hela Wigmen as RFL/Super League supremo. 

I’d gently argue that the championship and league one would need a few more games, something around youre SL figure . 24-5 for all leagues is good .... don’t vote for me for RL supremo , it’s too much like hard work 

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2 hours ago, TIWIT said:

Exactly the attitude that's holding the game back.

So it's the fans who are holding ' the game ' back , the ones who buy shirts and attend games , these people are holding the game back ? 

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1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Super League (twelve teams) - 23 games (11 H&A and a Magic Weekend), top 4/5 play-off and bottom relegated. 

Championship (ten teams) - 19 games (9 H&A and a Summer Bash), top 3/4 play-off, bottom relegated and the season ends in June/July. 

League One (fifteen teams) - three conferences of five, play each team in your conference home and away (8 game) and play the other conferences once (10 games, 18 overall). Top three teams qualify for the play-off’s with the best placed 2nd team. 

Super League plays fewer games because 29 is frankly absurd and too much of the same thing over and over. Also means we can have a proper international window in the season and stop throwing stones from our glass house at Australia, who do have mid-season internationals and play games. Also enough space in the calendar to try 9s if that’s where the game wants to go.

Championship and League One play fewer games to give the Championship winners time to adapt to Super League. The rest of the year can then see lower league teams focus turn to the 1895 Cup, giving teams a guaranteed number of home games and allowing them to have something to play for if they have a poor league season. 

Job’s a good’un. Vote Hela Wigmen as RFL/Super League supremo. 

Leeds probably generate £500k per home game, 3 less home games so who tops up the deficit when we are staring at a reduced TV deal of 280k per club - do we ask the players to take a cut, do we spend less on academies, do we become a NRL feeder country???

Typical RL fan, great on paper useless in reality

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14 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Leeds probably generate £500k per home game, 3 less home games so who tops up the deficit when we are staring at a reduced TV deal of 280k per club - do we ask the players to take a cut, do we spend less on academies, do we become a NRL feeder country???

Typical RL fan, great on paper useless in reality

Do we ask players to take a cut? Already have. 
Do we spend less on academies? With reserves gone, we’re doing that. 
Do we become an NRL feeder country? Already are. 

 

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1 hour ago, Gooleboy said:

They kicked Featherstone and Salford out, simples.

in a sixteen team league they relegated to division one

11th FEV 

12th Salford 

13th wakefield 

14th widnes 

the two teams who would have been relegate in  a normal season

15th Hull  in  division one 

16th Doncaster  in division two

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2 minutes ago, POR said:

in a sixteen team league they relegated to division one

11th FEV 

12th Salford 

13th wakefield 

14th widnes 

the two teams who would have been relegate in  a normal season

15th Hull  in  division one 

16th Doncaster  in division two

A long time ago, but it was no way to treat Clubs along with Keighley, who were cruelly denied promotion after winning Division Two.

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23 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Leeds probably generate £500k per home game, 3 less home games so who tops up the deficit when we are staring at a reduced TV deal of 280k per club - do we ask the players to take a cut, do we spend less on academies, do we become a NRL feeder country???

Typical RL fan, great on paper useless in reality

You pay for it through growth.

The entire justification for loop fixtures is based on zero-growth mindset - a lazy mentality that sells the same stuff to the same people over and over again.

You don't need more games. You need to sell more of the games you have.

Once this pandemic is over, there will be money out there to earn and a lot of pent-up leisure demand. There are sections of society that have done well out of this and are saving more than they ever have - the job of the clubs is to find those people and give them something they want to pay for.

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4 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

A long time ago, but it was no way to treat Clubs along with Keighley, who were cruelly denied promotion after winning Division Two.

To be fair kieghley were promoted to the new division one 

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2 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

They kicked Featherstone and Salford out

And put up a parking lot.....

Edited by dkw

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10 minutes ago, POR said:

To be fair kieghley were promoted to the new division one 

And what a scant consolation prize that was.

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50 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

You pay for it through growth.

The entire justification for loop fixtures is based on zero-growth mindset - a lazy mentality that sells the same stuff to the same people over and over again.

You don't need more games. You need to sell more of the games you have.

Once this pandemic is over, there will be money out there to earn and a lot of pent-up leisure demand. There are sections of society that have done well out of this and are saving more than they ever have - the job of the clubs is to find those people and give them something they want to pay for.

And they do this by ?

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29 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

And what a scant consolation prize that was.

What prize do you think they should have  got 

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15 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

And they do this by ?

You know full well this has been answered before, but they do it by:

Understanding who the valuable audiences are.

Understanding what those audiences want.

Understanding what they're willing to pay.

Adapting the matchday experience to reflect what they want and what they're willing to pay - clubs can't rely on the game itself being good enough to encourage them to come back.

Confidently selling that product at a credible price point - nobody will believe you if you try and sell a premier sporting event for £20 or less or throw discounts around willy nilly.

Make sure that the club works to build longer-term relationships with those audiences.

The way you DON'T do it is the way most clubs are currently doing it - sell the same old guff that everyone is bored of to the same people, relying on dads and grandads to drag the next generation of reluctant supporter along.

If the problem is that the game doesn't appeal to audiences that can afford to financially sustain it, it's time to change who it appeals to.

Edited by whatmichaelsays
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43 minutes ago, POR said:

To be fair kieghley were promoted to the new division one 

Keighley were already in the second tier. It was the second tier title that they won in the 1994/95 season. Ordinarily both they and Batley who finished as runner up would have been promoted to replace Hull and Doncaster. Both were denied promotion and London (who had finished 4th in the second tier) were placed in the top division as we all know. Keighley (and Batley) did not receive anything as far as I know by way of compensation.

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I'm amazed at the quality and quantity of the marketing geniuses who frequent this message board , pity none of them get anywhere near an actual club ? 🤔

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1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

So it's the fans who are holding ' the game ' back , the ones who buy shirts and attend games , these people are holding the game back ? 

Not enough fans going to games or buying swag. Got to try something to interest new fans or the game will die.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

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The British sport business model is broken beyond repair.

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Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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26 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

You know full well this has been answered before, but they do it by:

Understanding who the valuable audiences are. - Not the scribes on here who are tighter than cramp

Understanding what those audiences want.- Cheap tickets and decent pies at £1

Understanding what they're willing to pay. - As little as possible

Adapting the matchday experience to reflect what they want and what they're willing to pay - clubs can't rely on the game itself being good enough to encourage them to come back. - Nobody else will have them, of course they will come back

Confidently selling that product at a credible price point - nobody will believe you if you try and sell a premier sporting event for £20 or less or throw discounts around willy nilly. - Tell em its £30 a ticket to stand on the uncovered terrace at Wakey, they'll come flocking in, or Cas or in the well at HKR

Make sure that the club works to build longer-term relationships with those audiences. - they are mainly fans from Birth, passed on the gene by parents/Grandparents (nowt wrong with that btw)

The way you DON'T do it is the way most clubs are currently doing it - sell the same old guff that everyone is bored of to the same people, relying on dads and grandads to drag the next generation of reluctant supporter along. - You can't afford to lose these as you chuck the dice on the brave new world that RL virgins will embrace as the second coming. It's the profile of the sport that is the choke point, and the clowns who create it

If the problem is that the game doesn't appeal to audiences that can afford to financially sustain it, it's time to change who it appeals to. - It appeals to me and I am in the top .5% in wealth terms, but won't put in more than I do because of the clueless way it's run. The game ran off Koukash, and is doing the same with Beaumont who has a fraction of the Docs wealth and nothing like his connections. Tell me who else has put in Millions in recent years, Argyle and Hughes need to be made to feel Brilliant for what they are doing - are they?

So based on current reality see above

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5 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

So based on current reality see above

The current reality is that there will be people out there with money to spend when they are allowed to spend it. There are people who have been able to continue their jobs, not had the cost of commuting and who have a lot of pent-up demand for leisure. 

There is literally zero excuse for any RL club to not be thinking up ways to cater to those people. No excuse whatsoever.

The game doesn't need loop fixtures that do more harm to the sport that they do good.

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41 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I'm amazed at the quality and quantity of the marketing geniuses who frequent this message board , pity none of them get anywhere near an actual club ? 🤔

Who says I haven't been near a club?

But you know how clubs are currently trying to nickle and dime their players? They do that with their marketing and business development teams as well.

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5 hours ago, Big Picture said:

In the cases of all the various startup leagues which have come along in North America the League invariably came first, then it sold franchises to investors on the basis of its plan and what that plan offered them.  That's what I envision.

No, if you listen to those podcasts McGuire makes clear that the poor economy of the game's traditional heartland is the reason why the game is so chronically short of money for the simple reason that the sort of money needed for big time pro sport nowadays isn't present in those towns.  He points out that because of that, RL clubs face problems which their counterparts in other sports can't even imagine.

If you remember, Toronto coming in led to speculation about whether RL would have a multinational Pro 14 style league at some point and a league of that type would require owners of that sort.  Arygyle is substantially richer than your Koukashs and Caddicks; just imagine what a whole league of Torontos could do for the sport's profile and image.

Naw, there's no solid proof of his personal, actual wealth. There's various media speculation / assumption he's worth a few hundred million quid £ as per Koukash / Caddick wealth bracket. 

Edited by Smudger06

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1 hour ago, TIWIT said:

Not enough fans going to games or buying swag. Got to try something to interest new fans or the game will die.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

Fully understand , so who's ' fault ' is it ?

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