Damien Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 42 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said: Not really lad if you have a basic understanding of British RL...... The community game includes everyone of colour creed or hairstyle as far as I can see - take it the community games you go to dont?? At other end we had the first black captain of England in a major team sport, also the first black national team coach, the game has always had a large Pacific island influx in the UK in both the professional and amateur game ( or do they not count??). Players like Ikram Butt played for England at a time when even Asian players were struggling to get into the England Cricket team - which now seems crazy given the current make up of the England Cricket squads. As I said all basic stuff for any RL fan. You said it had always been the most inclusive and active sport in communities and ethnic groups. I thought you had something concrete to back this up but obviously haven't and have instead come back with a defensive and condescending tone. However with regards to your points: I have seen as many examples of people from ethnic communities in other sports as I have seen in RL. Certainly in Soccer I have seen considerably more. Lower league Cricket I have certainly seen more Asian players. Basketball has plenty of players from ethnic communities. RU has plenty of Pacific Island players too and probably has way more at the lower levels. The British Army 7s team is not far off a Fiji team. Premiership teams are full of Pacific Islanders. A few examples, laudable as they are, from decades ago doesn't really say much about what is happening now or how the sport engages now in communities. Indeed Clive Sullivan, I presume you meant the first black captain for Great Britain in a major team sport, came from RU. As did the likes of Roy Francis and Martin Offiah. I think many some of those milestones are examples of if you were good enough then colour didn't matter in Rugby League and that it would be no barrier. At one time it obviously was in RU. I remember watching the Welsh The Rugby Codebreakers Documentary and one of the players featured made that very point. Does that equate to the sport being the most inclusive and active sport in communities and ethnic groups? I don't think so. Yes the sport has had great players like Ellery Hanley, and it was great that he was the first black national team coach, but in the last GB team there was only Jermaine McGillvary out of a squad of 24 who was from a black, asian or ethnic minority background. You mention Ikram Butt who played in the 90s, who has been the next Ikram Butt? Where are all the Ikram Butts running about in the community game. Ikram Butt even came to League from Union because he was told he would never play in the RU First Team. In my playing days I played against very few Asian players and to be honest I struggle to recall any, despite playing against teams all over Lancashire, Yorkshire and all over the country at University. As a spectator is a Rugby League crowd really reflective of the areas that the team's are based? I certainly don't think so. Rugby League has had some great achievements and milestones and should be commended for them. However that does not mean the sport has always been the most inclusive and active sport in communities and ethnic groups. You are conflating two different things in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, Damien said: You said it had always been the most inclusive and active sport in communities and ethnic groups. I thought you had something concrete to back this up but obviously haven't and have instead come back with a defensive and condescending tone. However with regards to your points: I have seen as many examples of people from ethnic communities in other sports as I have seen in RL. Certainly in Soccer I have seen considerably more. Lower league Cricket I have certainly seen more Asian players. Basketball has plenty of players from ethnic communities. RU has plenty of Pacific Island players too and probably has way more at the lower levels. The British Army 7s team is not far off a Fiji team. Premiership teams are full of Pacific Islanders. A few examples, laudable as they are, from decades ago doesn't really say much about what is happening now or how the sport engages now in communities. Indeed Clive Sullivan, I presume you meant the first black captain for Great Britain in a major team sport, came from RU. As did the likes of Roy Francis and Martin Offiah. I think many some of those milestones are examples of if you were good enough then colour didn't matter in Rugby League and that it would be no barrier. At one time it obviously was in RU. I remember watching the Welsh The Rugby Codebreakers Documentary and one of the players featured made that very point. Does that equate to the sport being the most inclusive and active sport in communities and ethnic groups? I don't think so. Yes the sport has had great players like Ellery Hanley, and it was great that he was the first black national team coach, but in the last GB team there was only Jermaine McGillvary out of a squad of 24 who was from a black, asian or ethnic minority background. You mention Ikram Butt who played in the 90s, who has been the next Ikram Butt? Where are all the Ikram Butts running about in the community game. Ikram Butt even came to League from Union because he was told he would never play in the RU First Team. In my playing days I played against very few Asian players and to be honest I struggle to recall any, despite playing against teams all over Lancashire, Yorkshire and all over the country at University. As a spectator is a Rugby League crowd really reflective of the areas that the team's are based? I certainly don't think so. Rugby League has had some great achievements and milestones and should be commended for them. However that does not mean the sport has always been the most inclusive and active sport in communities and ethnic groups. You are conflating two different things in my opinion. You really dont like RL do you kid..... So we are a terrible racist sport according to your waffling on here.... well we are not, despite what you want to belive for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Just now, Mr Frisky said: You really dont like RL do you kid..... So we are a terrible racist sport according to your waffling on here.... well we are not, despite what you want to belive for some reason. That is not what I said, if that is what you take from that you really need to brush up on your reading and comprehension skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Damien said: That is not what I said, if that is what you take from that you really need to brush up on your reading and comprehension skills. I think if you take off your blinkers and look at last years GB team you will see there were a lot of players who or whos heratage is not from white British stock..... However that shouldn't matter, the best players should be picked for the elite squad not where they come from. Calm down, check your facts and chill marra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 11 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said: You really dont like RL do you kid..... So we are a terrible racist sport according to your waffling on here.... well we are not, despite what you want to belive for some reason. Nobody on this thread is accusing the sport of Rugby League or the people within it of being racist. It is a conversation about unfulfilled opportunities. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 It always funny when people resort to going through your posts doing confused and laughing emojis because they cant comprehend a post and can't debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Dunbar said: Nobody on this thread is accusing the sport of Rugby League or the people within it of being racist. It is a conversation about unfulfilled opportunities. Think you have missed the opportunity to put a good point forward - missed opportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Damien said: It always funny when people resort to going through your posts doing confused and laughing emojis because they cant comprehend a post and can't debate. The irony is you post that comment just after you assigned an emoji to one of my posts where you actually had to go back to find the post to do it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said: The irony is you post that comment just after you assigned an emoji to one of my posts where you actually had to go back to find the post to do it.... I laughed because you said I don't like Rugby League..... that's genuinely funny. You went back to posts from over 2 hours ago because you don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Damien said: I laughed because you said I don't like Rugby League..... that's genuinely funny. You went back to posts from over 2 hours ago because you don't understand. Yep I dont understand..... what your babbling on about. I've seen many community games when lads playing are from every background- most people in these teams dont care they just want to get a team on the pitch - even if you do care marra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 22 hours ago, Damien said: Even Soccer rarely gets over 3 million on Sky. Pre Covid the fifth highest ever Soccer viewing figure was 3.28 million. The highest ever figure is 4.04 million. There is no way the Grand Final figure is terrible. 18 hours ago, Mr Frisky said: Not really, it's a well known fact that the RL GF is the only none Soccer programme that breaks into the top 20 or 30 most viewed Sky sports programmes of any year - baring a Cricket WC final or key Ashes test or the Ryder Cup. The GF has always been and continues to get great figures for Sky. The CC final always has the problem of being in the middle of the day on a Saturday in the middle of summer - as the Leeds V Bradford game proves. Soccer even moved its FA cup final to later in the day for that very reason. 670k seems a very small number to me, however, plenty agree with you @Damien and if those stat of yours @Mr Frisky is accurate, then perhaps my expectations are too high. The 2.6 - 3m viewers for NRL GF does show the value of an evening audience on terrestrial. And of course the prominence of the sport in Aus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 27 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said: 670k seems a very small number to me, however, plenty agree with you @Damien and if those stat of yours @Mr Frisky is accurate, then perhaps my expectations are too high. The 2.6 - 3m viewers for NRL GF does show the value of an evening audience on terrestrial. And of course the prominence of the sport in Aus. For a bit of context when England lost to Croatia in the 2018 World Cup semi-final on terrestrial TV the viewing figure was 24.3 million viewers, which was a record. That is 20 million more than the best ever Sky Football game pre-Covid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Click Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 16 hours ago, Mr Frisky said: Yep I dont understand..... what your babbling on about. I've seen many community games when lads playing are from every background- most people in these teams dont care they just want to get a team on the pitch - even if you do care marra. Do you really see RL as more open than Football in the UK? Having to go back 20, 30 years to get your examples of RL being open isn't a great sign. RL is a very inclusive sport, as is pretty much all sports in the UK now, we had a headstart in terms of players from BAME representing GB, England, etc 20, 30 years + but we have done absolutely nothing with that, and let other sports take leaps and bounds. You can't force people from BAME to like RL, but there will be many out there that would like RL, but have either not seen it, or other factors may put them off seeing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hallucinating Goose Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 How many people subscribe to sky sports? Did a quick search and found a figure for sky in general but not specifically sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Sports Prophet said: 670k seems a very small number to me, however, plenty agree with you @Damien and if those stat of yours @Mr Frisky is accurate, then perhaps my expectations are too high. The 2.6 - 3m viewers for NRL GF does show the value of an evening audience on terrestrial. And of course the prominence of the sport in Aus. Yes but the SL GF is on sky behind a paywall and as I said, holds it's own in the channels most watched events and is usually 2nd behind football in the years most watched events. Even the BBC Sunday afternoon GF highlights, shown a full 16 or so hours after the final has finished still get around 1.5 million but anything around half a million for the actual game on Sky is classed as great figures for sky sports- that's one of the reasons Sky pay millions for RL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hallucinating Goose Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 24 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said: Yes but the SL GF is on sky behind a paywall and as I said, holds it's own in the channels most watched events and is usually 2nd behind football in the years most watched events. Even the BBC Sunday afternoon GF highlights, shown a full 16 or so hours after the final has finished still get around 1.5 million but anything around half a million for the actual game on Sky is classed as great figures for sky sports- that's one of the reasons Sky pay millions for RL. I believe sky have said in the past that RL is the most watched sport on sky after football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 On 16/07/2020 at 13:47, Sports Prophet said: From a population of 65m those are terrible figures Sigh. The population of areas where rugby league is a sport is around 5m. It’s like saying that Scottish Cup final viewing figures are awful compared to the 65m population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hallucinating Goose Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 27 minutes ago, Eddie said: Sigh. The population of areas where rugby league is a sport is around 5m. It’s like saying that Scottish Cup final viewing figures are awful compared to the 65m population. You gotta think as well, that population includes babies and toddlers, people unconscious in hospital, people who don't have tvs, people who were at work at the time, people who were out of the country and every other reason you can think of that meant people couldn't watch the TV at the time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Click Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 5 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said: You gotta think as well, that population includes babies and toddlers, people unconscious in hospital, people who don't have tvs, people who were at work at the time, people who were out of the country and every other reason you can think of that meant people couldn't watch the TV at the time... Yeah.. So whats their excuse for not watching TGG then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 10 hours ago, Click said: Do you really see RL as more open than Football in the UK? Having to go back 20, 30 years to get your examples of RL being open isn't a great sign. RL is a very inclusive sport, as is pretty much all sports in the UK now, we had a headstart in terms of players from BAME representing GB, England, etc 20, 30 years + but we have done absolutely nothing with that, and let other sports take leaps and bounds. You can't force people from BAME to like RL, but there will be many out there that would like RL, but have either not seen it, or other factors may put them off seeing it. Be careful, with talk like that you'll be criticised for not being a RL fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 7 hours ago, Eddie said: Sigh. The population of areas where rugby league is a sport is around 5m. It’s like saying that Scottish Cup final viewing figures are awful compared to the 65m population. It would be if the Scottish Cup final was considered the premier soccer event in Britain... If population is an issue, it sounds like RL needs to expand its reach to new populations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapologetic pedant Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Click said: Yeah.. So whats their excuse for not watching TGG then? Particularly the "unconscious in hospital". Shame on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapologetic pedant Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 8 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said: You gotta think as well, that population includes babies and toddlers, people unconscious in hospital, people who don't have tvs, people who were at work at the time, people who were out of the country and every other reason you can think of that meant people couldn't watch the TV at the time... Some of those unconscious people would be out of the country, or think they were. Some of the babies and toddlers won`t own TVs. So there`s a lot of double counting here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhw Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 18 hours ago, Eddie said: Sigh. The population of areas where rugby league is a sport is around 5m. It’s like saying that Scottish Cup final viewing figures are awful compared to the 65m population. London, North West, West Yorkshire alone is more than three times that. That is excluding South Yorkshire, West Midlands and the North East where there are semi-pro clubs with ambitions of making it to Super-League. Based off of that statistics from Sky Rugby League is often the second sport for football fans on sky sports. Comparison to the scottish cup final is not appropriate particularly when compared with viewing ratings across the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, dhw said: London, North West, West Yorkshire alone is more than three times that. That is excluding South Yorkshire, West Midlands and the North East where there are semi-pro clubs with ambitions of making it to Super-League. Based off of that statistics from Sky Rugby League is often the second sport for football fans on sky sports. Comparison to the scottish cup final is not appropriate particularly when compared with viewing ratings across the UK. Do you really think London, Liverpool and Manchester count as RL areas when estimating the population where RL is anything but a minority sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.