Championship and League 1 Scrapped

[Tommygilf]

Just now, SL17 said:

They have failed and this structure needs to change to reflect that.

Oh ok

[redjonn]

1 hour ago, Derwent said:

The problem we have revolves around 4 or 5 clubs who are not quite good/big enough for SL but too good for the rest of the Championship and League 1. So we are stuck trying to find a solution to a problem that is very complex.

There would only seem to be 2 solutions and neither is perfect :-

1.  You put those 4 or 5 clubs in with the SL clubs at the risk of killing them off completely

2.  You apply equal central funding to all Championship clubs in the hope that it creates a more balanced competition, but of course this is a levelling down exercise

But essentially it is those handful of clubs that are the major issue in the structure of the game.

As I see it those 4 or 5 clubs "not quite good/big for SL are about the same as 4 or 5 clubs that are in SL. They only do better than the other 4/5 because they get money from the Sky deal to cover salary cap plus benefit from greater commercial opportunities to exploit because they are in SL.

Swap them with each other and there would be no difference

[Derwent]

8 minutes ago, redjonn said:

As I see it those 4 or 5 clubs "not quite good/big for SL are about the same as 4 or 5 clubs that are in SL. They only do better than the other 4/5 because they get money from the Sky deal to cover salary cap plus benefit from greater commercial opportunities to exploit because they are in SL.

Swap them with each other and there would be no difference

Yes but swapping them would just recreate the problem only with different clubs. Putting Leigh in SL instead of Wakefield achieves nothing.

[Derwent]

51 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

I'm not sure I agree with how you have tiered these clubs.

The way I'd put it is: there are a small number of Championship clubs - certainly Featherstone and Leigh, and the likes of Toulouse, London and York could come into that bracket too - who are not only too good for the rest of the Championship , but over a period of time would have at least as much to offer as some of the current SL clubs - think Wakefield, Salford, and maybe one or two others.

The main difference is they don't have possession of that precious SL spot and the £2m that has been coming with it every year. That's it.

If we had 12 SL power house teams playing in top stadia with strong financial backing - in other words, 12 clubs that were clearly on a different level to Championship clubs -  there wouldn't be an issue.

Time is something they don't have unless you want to return to licensing ? Otherwise its sink or swim and you end up with yoyo clubs who go bust.

[The Phantom Horseman]

3 minutes ago, Derwent said:

Time is something they don't have unless you want to return to licensing ? Otherwise its sink or swim and you end up with yoyo clubs who go bust.

Yes I accept that. I am not sure what the answer is, maybe a 1-year exemption, maybe something else, I don't know. Really I'm just making the point that part of the problem with licensing is that there are probably half a dozen obvious suitable candidates and then it's perm any six from about 10 or 12 for the remaining places, yet you just know that possession (of a SL place) is nine tenths of the law.

[gittinsfan]

On 21/07/2020 at 12:21, sweaty craiq said:

They shouldn't just drift out of existence but find a level of peers, the Batleys etc need to be with the bigger amateur clubs in a play and pay league in Winter. They will attract bigger gates, more sponsors and the better ones might decide to have a pop at FT RL some day

 

I find it strange that a pub team like Batley can manage to own their own ground,yet an elite club like Leigh have to rent theirs.

[Harry Stottle]

18 minutes ago, gittinsfan said:

I find it strange that a pub team like Batley can manage to own their own ground,yet an elite club like Leigh have to rent theirs.

It's not an exclusive Stan, Wigan, Hull FC, Leigh, London, York (when they move), Coventry, Doncaster, Oldham, Rochdale, Newcastle are also tennants that is just of the top of my head, any others, anyone.

Add Swinton

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, SL17 said:

There comes a point when grounds end up being beyond economical repair. Basically it’s cheaper to rent.

And less income streams. Leigh never even owned Hilton Park at the end after selling due to financial issues. 

[Griff]

29 minutes ago, gittinsfan said:

I find it strange that a pub team like Batley can manage to own their own ground,yet an elite club like Leigh have to rent theirs.

Who needs a stadium if you want to play without spectators ?

[Blind side johnny]

38 minutes ago, Damien said:

And less income streams. Leigh never even owned Hilton Park at the end after selling due to financial issues. 

Sorry, Leigh don't have financial issues - I read it on here.

[Robin Evans]

4 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Sorry, Leigh don't have financial issues - I read it on here.

Leigh's finances are pretty much what Delbert says they are..... if he's happy to keep writing cheques they'll be OK..... they're are many clubs in that position..... even in SL.

[silverback]

42 minutes ago, Griff said:

Who needs a stadium if you want to play without spectators ?

Works for sheffield for a while.they couldent give em owlerton for nowt.

[NERugbyDad]

54 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It's not an exclusive Stan, Wigan, Hull FC, Leigh, London, York (when they move), Coventry, Doncaster, Oldham, Rochdale, Newcastle are also tennants that is just of the top of my head, any others, anyone.

Add Swinton

The Thunder aren't tennants, Newcastle Rugby own the ground and run both the Thunder and the Falcons. Thunder might be the little brother but no rent to pay.

[distantdog]

18 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Leigh's finances are pretty much what Delbert says they are..... if he's happy to keep writing cheques they'll be OK..... they're are many clubs in that position..... even in SL.

And there is the crux of the matter, this model appears to be acceptable to many on here. But run a club in a sustainable manner, have sensible targets, maintain a decent stadium and finances, and you become a pub team. 

By the way, I am not criticising the sugar daddy model of sustainability, twas ever thus in sport, but I see no moral high ground for them to stand on.

[Griff]

20 minutes ago, distantdog said:

By the way, I am not criticising the sugar daddy model of sustainability, twas ever thus in sport, but I see no moral high ground for them to stand on.

There isn't any high ground to see.

[Robin Evans]

13 minutes ago, distantdog said:

And there is the crux of the matter, this model appears to be acceptable to many on here. But run a club in a sustainable manner, have sensible targets, maintain a decent stadium and finances, and you become a pub team. 

By the way, I am not criticising the sugar daddy model of sustainability, twas ever thus in sport, but I see no moral high ground for them to stand on.

I don't disagree with any of that.  If it weren't for Campbell fev would have been up sh it creek.

However, the club is now sustainable with good income streams and sponsorships etc.... but that in itself has its own vulnerabilities.

Whichever model you pick out there is one common flaw.... there isn't enough money in rugby to pay for rugby. 

Chances were missed 60 years ago or so. If the game had some vision then lord knows where the game could have been.

Today is here. We have what we have. If P&R is removed as many would like, it removes the hope... faith that on field success equates to promotion.

Remove that hope and folks like Derek Beaumont will walk away. Campbell could well do the same, I don't know... i haven't asked him.

The game would then be meaningless to me.... like it was last time. 

[distantdog]

3 minutes ago, Griff said:

There isn't any high ground to see.

Not sure everyone would agree with that!

[tms]

2 hours ago, Derwent said:

Yes but swapping them would just recreate the problem only with different clubs. Putting Leigh in SL instead of Wakefield achieves nothing.

It does for leigh

[Griff]

3 minutes ago, distantdog said:

Not sure everyone would agree with that!

If you live in Batley, I suppose you're right.

[distantdog]

18 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

I don't disagree with any of that.  If it weren't for Campbell fev would have been up sh it creek.

However, the club is now sustainable with good income streams and sponsorships etc.... but that in itself has its own vulnerabilities.

Whichever model you pick out there is one common flaw.... there isn't enough money in rugby to pay for rugby. 

Chances were missed 60 years ago or so. If the game had some vision then lord knows where the game could have been.

Today is here. We have what we have. If P&R is removed as many would like, it removes the hope... faith that on field success equates to promotion.

Remove that hope and folks like Derek Beaumont will walk away. Campbell could well do the same, I don't know... i haven't asked him.

The game would then be meaningless to me.... like it was last time. 

I couldn't agree more, definitely no argument from me! Everyone on here wants the best for their own clubs. It's what comes with the territory of being a supporter. I want the best for Batley, but can understand why we are where we are on this decision. Can you? As a poster I respect, I suspect the answer is yes. I doubt there are other posters who can though. Did the RFL have any other option than to make this decision?

[Getmefood]

So without the Championship & League 1 playing this year would that mean they start early next year? wonder if Ottawa will still be joining League 1..

[sweaty craiq]

1 hour ago, Robin Evans said:

Leigh's finances are pretty much what Delbert says they are..... if he's happy to keep writing cheques they'll be OK..... they're are many clubs in that position..... even in SL.

I believe last time he had to write a cheque he wasn't going to get back was 2016, he even wrote off £1m of his loans last year. 

[sweaty craiq]

2 hours ago, gittinsfan said:

I find it strange that a pub team like Batley can manage to own their own ground,yet an elite club like Leigh have to rent theirs.

Have you been to Batley?

[tms]

18 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Have you been to Batley?

yes it's a good day out 

[Griff]

47 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

I believe last time he had to write a cheque he wasn't going to get back was 2016, he even wrote off £1m of his loans last year. 

Wrote a cheque ?

How primitive.