Ottawa and New York

[Blind side johnny]

15 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

 

They’ve signed four lads from the Widnes club, and Fozard, a Widnes born player. I get the feeling they’ll be North West based.  

According to the government and London media the North West includes West Yorkshire, so I think that you might be right.

[Lowdesert]

Still full steam ahead.  Marguerite from Catalans.

https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/ottawa-sign-second-french-international-32199/

[dead man inc]

On 13/08/2020 at 21:29, Fev1983 said:

The same thing will happen, it’s not sustainable without central funding.

Does buying Hemels license give them access to central funding?

[ojx]

I don't see how Ottawa is any more sustainable than Toronto was. The central funding is tiny and won't make a dent in the costs of running a transatlantic side, they will still have to negotiate with SL separately for entry. There are no community RL clubs in Ottawa and, for all the talk, I'm not seeing the recruitment of Canadian players yet. On top of that, it is based in a smaller more conservative city, and the impression left from the TWP going under will not be good. 

Not trying to wind anyone up, but the backers could have gone for an MLR franchise instead. 

[Fev1983]

52 minutes ago, SL17 said:

It gives them access to it.

Not if they base themselves abroad 

[ojx]

1 hour ago, SL17 said:

You had a chance. 

Indeed. Wasn't meant to be, it was always a crazy idea, but I enjoyed the ride. Great sport and great people.

[RobertAM]

Canadian/US tryouts scheduled for Sep/Oct as they have advertised since the off..calm down

[ojx]

24 minutes ago, RobertAM said:

Canadian/US tryouts scheduled for Sep/Oct as they have advertised since the off..calm down

In reality what do they expect from this tryout?

Rugby Union players have a clear pathway from local community clubs to the provincial teams to MLR.  It is also often played by better off kids who are pursuing other careers in Canada in addition to their rugby.

RL pays peanuts, even for most players in Super League. Is it enough to make a Canadian Football player want to work for almost nothing in League One, on the unlikely chance they could eventually become a top SL player.

Remember that the Wolfpack tried this too. 

[RobertAM]

CFL salaries aren't high unless you are a star refuge from the NFL..only American football can make you a multi millionaire

[TheReaper]

Minimum is still like 65k a year on the full roster. Not sure about practice roster. 

[Big Picture]

19 minutes ago, TheReaper said:

Minimum is still like 65k a year on the full roster. Not sure about practice roster. 

According to this account the practice roster paid 750$ a week under the 2014 contract, or 15,750$ for the whole season.

[CanadianRugger]

1 hour ago, RobertAM said:

CFL salaries aren't high unless you are a star refuge from the NFL..only American football can make you a multi millionaire

The devil is in the details though.  CFL CBA is very good.  You know that CFL teams are only legally allowed to make players work for 4.5 hours a day.  

Not to mention season is only 18 games long.  Players are paid more per game than any Super League player.  Not to mention cost of living is lower in Canada.

[Adelaide Tiger]

10 hours ago, ojx said:

I don't see how Ottawa is any more sustainable than Toronto was. The central funding is tiny and won't make a dent in the costs of running a transatlantic side, they will still have to negotiate with SL separately for entry. There are no community RL clubs in Ottawa and, for all the talk, I'm not seeing the recruitment of Canadian players yet. On top of that, it is based in a smaller more conservative city, and the impression left from the TWP going under will not be good. 

Not trying to wind anyone up, but the backers could have gone for an MLR franchise instead. 

In response to your final paragraph, you could turn the sentence around and ask ‘Why did the backers choose RL over an MLR franchise’.

[Adelaide Tiger]

9 hours ago, Fev1983 said:

Not if they base themselves abroad 

Why does being located abroad mean that Ottawa cannot access central funding if they have purchased a licence?

[GUBRATS]

7 hours ago, ojx said:

In reality what do they expect from this tryout?

Rugby Union players have a clear pathway from local community clubs to the provincial teams to MLR.  It is also often played by better off kids who are pursuing other careers in Canada in addition to their rugby.

RL pays peanuts, even for most players in Super League. Is it enough to make a Canadian Football player want to work for almost nothing in League One, on the unlikely chance they could eventually become a top SL player.

Remember that the Wolfpack tried this too. 

Agree it's unlikely to work , but better that they try it , in fact wether it's succssessful or not , it should be a continuous process every year 

 

[Whippet13]

7 hours ago, ojx said:

RL pays peanuts, even for most players in Super League. Is it enough to make a Canadian Football player want to work for almost nothing in League One, on the unlikely chance they could eventually become a top SL player.

Isn't the average SL salary something like £60-65k? I consider that to be a pretty decent wage. We know there are some younger players at or near the minimum wage, which is a ridiculous situation, but to say most SL players get paid peanuts is wrong.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Whippet13 said:

Isn't the average SL salary something like £60-65k? I consider that to be a pretty decent wage. We know there are some younger players at or near the minimum wage, which is a ridiculous situation, but to say most SL players get paid peanuts is wrong.

In world pro sports terms , yes they are 

[Eddie]

49 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

In world pro sports terms , yes they are 

Not really, compared to the majority of professional sportsmen across the world £65k would be a handsome salary. If you’re comparing to NFL, Premier League etc then yes it isn’t much. 

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Whippet13 said:

Isn't the average SL salary something like £60-65k? I consider that to be a pretty decent wage. We know there are some younger players at or near the minimum wage, which is a ridiculous situation, but to say most SL players get paid peanuts is wrong.

Thats a mean average, I suspect the modal or median average would be far less pretty.

[Oldbear]

8 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

In response to your final paragraph, you could turn the sentence around and ask ‘Why did the backers choose RL over an MLR franchise’.

Probably because in Canada if you want the media to take note, and fans to show up, it’s advantageous to be part of a major league. It’s why NHL teams have long wait lists for tickets but the level below struggles to fill rinks despite low ticket prices for a good standard of hockey. The whole attraction of being in the RFL is that England is the home of rugby so instant credibility, both with the media and fans, even if it’s League1 as there’s a path to the top. MLR on the other hand is North American, perceived as inferior as there’s no Brit connection, it’s also one reason why I don’t see a North American RL ever working, unless it’s a separate conference which is still part of the British structure and still playing British teams.

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, SL17 said:

No it’s not part of the British structure. They are invited to create their own structure.

This is the problem with expansion, as once they gain entry, they then change the plan to suit.

Although saying that our own structure is a waste of time.

You are right that they need to create their own structure, but as @Oldbearnoted it will need to be bigger than just North America so as not to be perceived as inferior to the structures over there.  Realistically it will need to include places like London and Manchester too.

[Oldbear]

1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

You are right that they need to create their own structure, but as @Oldbearnoted it will need to be bigger than just North America so as not to be perceived as inferior to the structures over there.  Realistically it will need to include places like London and Manchester too.

Pretty much what I mean. The truth is in North America you are either part of a major league, which means high media profile, lots of fan interest and the chance to generate $, or you are minor league, which invariably means little media exposure, a struggle to sell tickets (unless you are the only game in town, like Prairie Province small town hockey teams or the Saskatchewan Rough Riders), and limited income generating capacity. NHL, NFL, NBA and MLB are major league, MLS (thanks to imports like David Beckham), is approaching major league, whereas OHL, WHL, NLL, CFL and minor league baseball are definitely minor league. Now MLR is currently on a par with Lacrosse and unlikely to become major league, unless a few brave (or foolish) owners sign a bunch of All Blacks or Springboks. A North American rugby league would no doubt be the same, unless SL was structured under the conference system and you had a conference for NA and maybe French expansion teams, who would then also play teams from the English conference and therefore give the league an element of credibility.

If a NA RL was formed, and it stayed minor league, then in reality it would have a very short lifespan, hence the need to somehow be part of the much more credible British system. What happens with MLR is anyone’s guess, although I suspect the IRB might be more supportive of it if they think it’s a way to completely eradicate RL from the continent. Maybe Sonny Bill is due another code switch, after all the media attention created over here when he signed for TWP will not have gone unnoticed and TSN/Bell Media seem to be quite cozy with RU.

[Big Picture]

6 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

Pretty much what I mean. The truth is in North America you are either part of a major league, which means high media profile, lots of fan interest and the chance to generate $, or you are minor league, which invariably means little media exposure, a struggle to sell tickets (unless you are the only game in town, like Prairie Province small town hockey teams or the Saskatchewan Rough Riders), and limited income generating capacity. NHL, NFL, NBA and MLB are major league, MLS (thanks to imports like David Beckham), is approaching major league, whereas OHL, WHL, NLL, CFL and minor league baseball are definitely minor league. Now MLR is currently on a par with Lacrosse and unlikely to become major league, unless a few brave (or foolish) owners sign a bunch of All Blacks or Springboks. A North American rugby league would no doubt be the same, unless SL was structured under the conference system and you had a conference for NA and maybe French expansion teams, who would then also play teams from the English conference and therefore give the league an element of credibility.

If a NA RL was formed, and it stayed minor league, then in reality it would have a very short lifespan, hence the need to somehow be part of the much more credible British system. What happens with MLR is anyone’s guess, although I suspect the IRB might be more supportive of it if they think it’s a way to completely eradicate RL from the continent. Maybe Sonny Bill is due another code switch, after all the media attention created over here when he signed for TWP will not have gone unnoticed and TSN/Bell Media seem to be quite cozy with RU.

The divide between major league and minor league is a big one and alas SL is clearly in the minor league category as it doesn't have the profile, fan interest or revenue of any of the major leagues.  Some minor league baseball franchises are worth over 30 million US$ and it's probably safe to say that none of the SL clubs is worth that much.  MLS is certainly a major league, they sure wouldn't be getting 325 million US$ for an expansion franchise (roughly 10 times the highest value of any minor league franchise in existence) otherwise.

So for RL to crack this richest of world sports markets and bring in a slice of the big money which networks here in America pay to televise sports, a major league RL competition would be required and that can't happen within the English RL structure.  Absent someone with a credible plan to create such a league, it won't happen.

[Getmefood]

6 hours ago, Big Picture said:

The divide between major league and minor league is a big one and alas SL is clearly in the minor league category as it doesn't have the profile, fan interest or revenue of any of the major leagues.  Some minor league baseball franchises are worth over 30 million US$ and it's probably safe to say that none of the SL clubs is worth that much.  MLS is certainly a major league, they sure wouldn't be getting 325 million US$ for an expansion franchise (roughly 10 times the highest value of any minor league franchise in existence) otherwise.

So for RL to crack this richest of world sports markets and bring in a slice of the big money which networks here in America pay to televise sports, a major league RL competition would be required and that can't happen within the English RL structure.  Absent someone with a credible plan to create such a league, it won't happen.

IKR, if future teams from North America want to play professional RL they would be better off joining the NRL which I very much doubt they would be let in. SL expansion should be coming in the form of Toulouse, Newcastle etc.. as there is a junior base there and some RL history. Kind of like the NRL and PVL wanting another team from Brisbane. 

[Whippet13]

Perez update on Ottawa, basically states no effect on them from the Toronto fallout and they will play in the UK during 2021 if C-19 prevents them using Ottawa for home games:  

https://www.skysports.com/rugby-league/news/12196/12053623/eric-perez-says-ottawa-and-new-york-will-not-be-affected-by-torontos-wolfpack-withdrawal