gingerjon Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 It must be a bit rubbish for Ottawa, who do at least exist albeit and have a defined pathway to playing (albeit one that is now even more fraught), to be lumped in with New York, who have never given any indication of being real. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Chopra Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Adelaide Tiger said: This might be a stupid question but here goes. If TWP and possibly NY are not eligible for central funding as they are new clubs and have NOT taking over the licence of an existing club dies that mean the same would apply if a new team in England was established. This is where the lack of clarity from the RFL leads to all sorts of confusion. To be clear, we don't have licences in English rugby league. Clubs are either full members of the RFL, or they play in RFL competitions as guests (Toronto and the French teams). It would appear that Ottawa inherited Hemel's membership of the RFL when they bought the club's company, which gives them various voting rights and what have you, so they are similar to English clubs to that extent. BUT the condition of allowing that change in ownership was that the new owners agree to a particular funding and costs arrangement. If a new English club was formed, and applied for RFL membership, the existing members can set any terms they want for admittance, including on funding. Or they can refuse the application entirely as they did with Manchester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellsy4HullFC Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Adelaide Tiger said: This might be a stupid question but here goes. If TWP and possibly NY are not eligible for central funding as they are new clubs and have NOT taking over the licence of an existing club dies that mean the same would apply if a new team in England was established. Unless they are granted membership, which you would assume they would be as it is an English comp. But this is rugby league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadera78 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 2 hours ago, gingerjon said: It must be a bit rubbish for Ottawa, who do at least exist albeit and have a defined pathway to playing (albeit one that is now even more fraught), to be lumped in with New York, who have never given any indication of being real. I've been thinking this for a while now too. Some people won't like Ottawa entering L1 but there's at least a club there. There's nothing about New York that looks or feels legitimate. "Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart." Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, nadera78 said: I've been thinking this for a while now too. Some people won't like Ottawa entering L1 but there's at least a club there. There's nothing about New York that looks or feels legitimate. I’m interested to know who are these people who don’t like Ottawa entering? They were unanimously voted in if it recall correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 16 hours ago, wiganermike said: Ottawa bought Hemel's membership 'licence' (for want of a better word) so will be treated as a relocated Hemel. They will get central funding. NY probably will not as they didn't take over an existing member club. I know that they bought Hemel's licence but does this automatically entitle them to a share of central funding? Given that NY won't enter before 2022 and central funding for C1 clubs is likely to have dried up by then the discussion about them is moot. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiganermike Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Blind side johnny said: I know that they bought Hemel's licence but does this automatically entitle them to a share of central funding? Given that NY won't enter before 2022 and central funding for C1 clubs is likely to have dried up by then the discussion about them is moot. Yes. They have come to an agreement that they start initially on a percentage of the total funding with the aim of attaining full funding. They are a member club. This was asked of Eric Perez on the Golden Point vodcast (see Sky Sports RL website) and he answered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 26 minutes ago, DoubleD said: I’m interested to know who are these people who don’t like Ottawa entering? They were unanimously voted in if it recall correctly Indeed . League One needs teams , needs more games and increased competition and profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Chopra Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, wiganermike said: Yes. They have come to an agreement that they start initially on a percentage of the total funding with the aim of attaining full funding. They are a member club. This was asked of Eric Perez on the Golden Point vodcast (see Sky Sports RL website) and he answered it. So like Toronto it will be 'revisited' in the future. Membership itself doesn't grant any automatic entitlement to funding. The 'members club' (RFL) can insist on any arrangement they want in return for agreeing to admit a new member (or allow a transfer of membership to new owners) The deal on funding the RFL they did with Perez was the condition demanded for allowing the new ownership to take over and relocate the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiganermike Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 23 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said: So like Toronto it will be 'revisited' in the future. Membership itself doesn't grant any automatic entitlement to funding. The 'members club' (RFL) can insist on any arrangement they want in return for agreeing to admit a new member (or allow a transfer of membership to new owners) The deal on funding the RFL they did with Perez was the condition demanded for allowing the new ownership to take over and relocate the team. Yes, in the case of Ottawa that arrangement includes a percentage of central funding (unspecified by Perez what percentage that is) from the beginning. Whether that is an issue up for review after a set period like TWP's agreement or that an increased allocation kicks in automatically based on conditions being met will depend on the exact wording of the agreement signed by Ottawa and the RFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Plow Posted July 25, 2020 Author Share Posted July 25, 2020 A lot won’t like this but to be the most sensible thing to do right now would be to reintroduce licensing. SL need a plan for how they want the league to look and what direction they want to go in. Have a set of standards new clubs have to have e.g 10k stadium, 5 year financial plan. Start them in Championship for 3 years before they’re eligible to apply for a place in SL Having a club play at the same level for a few years would be better than paying their way through the divisions and give the team and club more stability and give more confidence to SL that they can survive, develop and grow the game Then hopefully we won’t have another situation like we do now with Toronto. I suppose this is similar to what the NRL do but having clubs renter into the Queensland and NSW cups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 12 hours ago, DoubleD said: It doesn’t matter if chairmen are ‘turning against them’, they’ve been admitted and voted in by those same chairmen so tough And if ALL those Chairmen which I don't know if it is a majority or a minority of the clubs in L1 decide against travelling to Canada then what Promote Ottawa to the Championship? Mr Perez will have to abandon is 'Softly Softly Catchy Monkey' approach to his squad building and considering most Championship clubs have made a minimum of two visits to Canada already, it could be the novelty may be wearing off, but we will have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Toby Chopra said: This is where the lack of clarity from the RFL leads to all sorts of confusion. To be clear, we don't have licences in English rugby league. Clubs are either full members of the RFL, or they play in RFL competitions as guests (Toronto and the French teams). It would appear that Ottawa inherited Hemel's membership of the RFL when they bought the club's company, which gives them various voting rights and what have you, so they are similar to English clubs to that extent. BUT the condition of allowing that change in ownership was that the new owners agree to a particular funding and costs arrangement. If a new English club was formed, and applied for RFL membership, the existing members can set any terms they want for admittance, including on funding. Or they can refuse the application entirely as they did with Manchester. 100% Correct, additionally should any member wish to relocate (inc. Hemel, whom it was reported that their application to relocate went through) they would have to get the agreement of the RFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 9 hours ago, The Rocket said: This can work both ways. Dilettantes have a habit of attaching themselves to something new ,fashionable or trendy then moving on pretty quickly. And that also applies to those clubs who in the beginning said great a trip to Canada, but having done that and ticked it off, making numerous trips the novelty may be wearing off, if that is what you meant by 'working both ways' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 37 minutes ago, DavidM said: Indeed . League One needs teams , needs more games and increased competition and profile Does it need more teams? Whose going to finance them? Are lower league clubs going to want to share the money even further? Do we even have enough money to go around the thirty-odd teams we have already, let alone anymore? Is there enough players to go around more teams? I’d also ask, what purpose does League One serve? There was a period where it was clearly a development league (Oxford, All Golds, Coventry, Hemel, North Wales, Skolars, South Wales etc) in the last ten years and it looked as though there was something resembling a plan to grow the game. That lasted barely three years, from memory, and it just went to being a normal league, creating huge differences in playing quality and doesn’t seem to have a purpose other than being a step up or down the ladder for some heartlands clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 5 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said: Then they will be docked points for failing to complete a fixture. And a fine useually goes along with docking points, but what if it is the majority of clubs, the RFL will have a real problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Hemel was a full member, Hemel was sold & purchased by new owners. Full members are entitled to central funding dependent on competing in RFL competitions, how much funding depends on what tier & completing issued fixtures at that tier, and performance (in the case of Championship) Some Hemel Assets were spun off at the time of purchase I.e the community Club, lease (ownership?) Of facilities. Hemel then applied to relocate. Hemel got permission to relocate..... It's not hard to figure out, there's no voodoo in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said: Does it need more teams? Whose going to finance them? Are lower league clubs going to want to share the money even further? Do we even have enough money to go around the thirty-odd teams we have already, let alone anymore? Is there enough players to go around more teams? I’d also ask, what purpose does League One serve? There was a period where it was clearly a development league (Oxford, All Golds, Coventry, Hemel, North Wales, Skolars, South Wales etc) in the last ten years and it looked as though there was something resembling a plan to grow the game. That lasted barely three years, from memory, and it just went to being a normal league, creating huge differences in playing quality and doesn’t seem to have a purpose other than being a step up or down the ladder for some heartlands clubs. I’m writing all those questions down and will get back to you in a fortnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Perez for RFL Chairman & CEO. I'm not joking either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rocket Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, DavidM said: I’m writing all those questions down and will get back to you in a fortnight Some interesting question in there though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rocket Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: if that is what you meant by 'working both ways' I was more referring to the locals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 My main point at this stage is that Toronto need Ottawa & Ottawa need Toronto. Apparently there are 7 interested Parties who already run pro sports teams interested in TWP since Argyle said he wanted to sell the Club to a Community ownership model. I posted this on the other thread as well as its relevant to both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, The Rocket said: Some interesting question in there though. Pertinent questions around finance , which is an issue for the game in general and yes even more so down the pyramid , I don’t have the answers there . Also in terms of league ones function , it’s almost been two leagues in one . I’d be in favour of going back to two divisions and having a more development league beneath with the bottom of league one and top conference / amateur teams . I say we need more teams purely in terms of there’s not enough for a proper full season imo , 10 or 11 isn’t enough and Ottawa you’d think would be a strong team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, DoubleD said: I’m interested to know who are these people who don’t like Ottawa entering? They were unanimously voted in if it recall correctly A very honest question, did the clubs vote, or was it the RFL who decided to let Ottawa into the League system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 59 minutes ago, wiganermike said: Yes, in the case of Ottawa that arrangement includes a percentage of central funding (unspecified by Perez what percentage that is) from the beginning. Whether that is an issue up for review after a set period like TWP's agreement or that an increased allocation kicks in automatically based on conditions being met will depend on the exact wording of the agreement signed by Ottawa and the RFL. Would it not have been prudent of Mr Perez through his experience of Toronto to insist on the applicable funding level commensurate to the league they play in to be awarded to them, seems he is going down the same road as I presume he travelled along when negotiating and detailing Toronto's entry. But whatever the deliberations come out of the Toronto judgement, I expect it will also apply to Ottawa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.