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Rugby and Racism


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9 hours ago, John Rhino said:

An interesting and very observant article on Rugby and a civil rights icon

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/rugby-league-and-the-civil-rights-icon/

 

Pertinent reference to campaigners against segregation. Hard to know nowadays whether campaigners are for or against segregation.

Plaudits to the writer for the description of Clive Sullivan.

Seeing "Yorkshire" and "Andrex" within a few inches of each other is very tempting, but perhaps leave that for another occasion.

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You are not allowed to mention Rugby League and Racism in the same paragraph, I have just served a 4 week ban for accusing the RFL of not engaging with the South Asian communities. Caribbean descent is one thing, but given the high Asian populations of Rochdale, Bradford & Halifax etc., you would think a higher number of Asian player are involved...... That is me banned for free speach again.

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2 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

You are not allowed to mention Rugby League and Racism in the same paragraph, I have just served a 4 week ban for accusing the RFL of not engaging with the South Asian communities. Caribbean descent is one thing, but given the high Asian populations of Rochdale, Bradford & Halifax etc., you would think a higher number of Asian player are involved...... That is me banned for free speach again.

Lets wait and see if anybody involved in development in areas with high Asian or people of Asian origin responds.

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3 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

You are not allowed to mention Rugby League and Racism in the same paragraph, I have just served a 4 week ban for accusing the RFL of not engaging with the South Asian communities. Caribbean descent is one thing, but given the high Asian populations of Rochdale, Bradford & Halifax etc., you would think a higher number of Asian player are involved...... That is me banned for free speach again.

Banned by who? This forum? 

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22 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Anyone know if Super League players are to take the knee this weekend?

I think it would be a really bad look if they waltz on to the pitch and do nothing. Maybe a banner might be a good thing. 

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17 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Each to their own, HawkMan.

What we don't want in the run up to the WC next year is the general public to say,  " ah Rugby League,  that's the game that didn't bother with the BLM campaign. " Football,  Cricket,  Formula One  has done something so we should do something ANYTHING,  a banner saying " we support equality " or " drive out racism " would show solidarity. Unless the RL community really DOESN'T care.

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8 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

What we don't want in the run up to the WC next year is the general public to say,  " ah Rugby League,  that's the game that didn't bother with the BLM campaign. " Football,  Cricket,  Formula One  has done something so we should do something ANYTHING,  a banner saying " we support equality " or " drive out racism " would show solidarity. Unless the RL community really DOESN'T care.

Do you really think a banner before this weekend’s Super League games would have any impact on WC ticket sales and TV viewing figures? 

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4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Do you really think a banner before this weekend’s Super League games would have any impact on WC ticket sales and TV viewing figures? 

If they do something it probably won't have an impact,  but if they don't it may. As a fellow southerner you realise that RL gets naff all mention in the papers down here, or outside the heartlands,  but a bad news story tends to stick. Already before every F1 race the talk is who'll take the knee and who'll not. People have long memories if they feel aggrieved.  Slime sticks as the old saying goes, and the game doesn't need any slung in its direction. 

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9 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

If they do something it probably won't have an impact,  but if they don't it may. As a fellow southerner you realise that RL gets naff all mention in the papers down here, or outside the heartlands,  but a bad news story tends to stick. Already before every F1 race the talk is who'll take the knee and who'll not. People have long memories if they feel aggrieved.  Slime sticks as the old saying goes, and the game doesn't need any slung in its direction. 

I’m not Southern (I just live here) but yes I agree there’s very little coverage. However despite the microscopic attention the media give it I doubt if many of the general public would worry about who’s paying lip service to what. 

 

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1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

I think it would be a really bad look if they waltz on to the pitch and do nothing. Maybe a banner might be a good thing. 

For some of us (who knows, maybe just me!), the problems with mass demonstrations of 'taking the knee' before sporting fixtures include that (a) we have no idea whether everybody who does so is sincere, because (b) this is easy, virtue signalling that personally costs nothing, and is easier just to go along with.  Hence, (c) we have no idea what anybody who doesn't 'take the knee' really thinks.  (I never once clapped at 8pm on a Thursday for the NHS.  What can you deduce from that about my view of the NHS?  What can you deduce about those who did clap for them?  In thinking about your answer to that, have regard to all the Cabinet ministers who were seen clapping and how they voted when there was a proposal for an above inflation pay rise for nurses a couple of years ago!)

I would be more impressed by top flight soccer players who decline to accept the riches and glory that will come with competing in the world cup in Qatar, given the slave-like conditions under which workers on new stadia there have allegedly toiled; or Lewis Hamilton declining to race in some F1 grand prix races in places with appalling human rights records.

All that said, if you really feel that our game should make a statement, keep it simple and keep it away from the BLM movement, which, as some of us perceive it, is much to do with the USA and more specifically attitudes within their police force, and hence the budgets that those police forces should (or shouldn't) get.  In other words, it's political and not much to do with our own domestic politics.

So, how about a simple banner (or maybe a display on the electronic scoreboard) that shows pictures of Billy Boston and Clive Sullivan, with the dates when they played and how many GB caps they had, with, in Sullivan's case, a reference to when he was captain too.  Black lives certainly mattered to the GB selectors then, and to the adoring rank-and-file fans of these two great players; if they were good enough, they were in, regardless of colour.

The very first try I ever saw when attending a rugby league match 'in the flesh' was scored by Boston.  My friend who took me to the game, which was at Central Park against Fev, told me all about Boston's attributes, and I soon saw what he meant - the direct line of attack, as opposed to the jinking Rhodesian on the other wing, Trevor Lake; the very high leg action, which must have made tackling him harder still; and so on..  Curiously, he never mentioned his colour, and I never noticed it.

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34 minutes ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

For some of us (who knows, maybe just me!), the problems with mass demonstrations of 'taking the knee' before sporting fixtures include that (a) we have no idea whether everybody who does so is sincere, because (b) this is easy, virtue signalling that personally costs nothing, and is easier just to go along with.  Hence, (c) we have no idea what anybody who doesn't 'take the knee' really thinks.  (I never once clapped at 8pm on a Thursday for the NHS.  What can you deduce from that about my view of the NHS?  What can you deduce about those who did clap for them?  In thinking about your answer to that, have regard to all the Cabinet ministers who were seen clapping and how they voted when there was a proposal for an above inflation pay rise for nurses a couple of years ago!)

I would be more impressed by top flight soccer players who decline to accept the riches and glory that will come with competing in the world cup in Qatar, given the slave-like conditions under which workers on new stadia there have allegedly toiled; or Lewis Hamilton declining to race in some F1 grand prix races in places with appalling human rights records.

All that said, if you really feel that our game should make a statement, keep it simple and keep it away from the BLM movement, which, as some of us perceive it, is much to do with the USA and more specifically attitudes within their police force, and hence the budgets that those police forces should (or shouldn't) get.  In other words, it's political and not much to do with our own domestic politics.

So, how about a simple banner (or maybe a display on the electronic scoreboard) that shows pictures of Billy Boston and Clive Sullivan, with the dates when they played and how many GB caps they had, with, in Sullivan's case, a reference to when he was captain too.  Black lives certainly mattered to the GB selectors then, and to the adoring rank-and-file fans of these two great players; if they were good enough, they were in, regardless of colour.

The very first try I ever saw when attending a rugby league match 'in the flesh' was scored by Boston.  My friend who took me to the game, which was at Central Park against Fev, told me all about Boston's attributes, and I soon saw what he meant - the direct line of attack, as opposed to the jinking Rhodesian on the other wing, Trevor Lake; the very high leg action, which must have made tackling him harder still; and so on..  Curiously, he never mentioned his colour, and I never noticed it.

Great idea about the RL legends on a screen with caps etc.

Once you start forcing players to kneel for what many belive is a questionable organisation and ideal, you lose any credibility - as an example what about the police officers who are paid to keep these players safe on match days - what message does that send to them?

A lot of Soccer fans are already planning on turning their backs on the kneel when they get back in the grounds so its probably better to keep RL away from all that and the fall out once the fans get back into grounds.

Let's get these faces and facts on screens and show and remind everybody the great history and players we have had and still have in RL from every walk of life.

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2 hours ago, HawkMan said:

What we don't want in the run up to the WC next year is the general public to say,  " ah Rugby League,  that's the game that didn't bother with the BLM campaign. " Football,  Cricket,  Formula One  has done something so we should do something ANYTHING,  a banner saying " we support equality " or " drive out racism " would show solidarity. Unless the RL community really DOESN'T care.

It's not that Hawk, are people not allowed different opinions on matters, for everyone who took to the streets there were a thousand sat at home it is not as though they didn't care, maybe they did not want to escalate matters.

Let me give you my take on it ........... Lives Matter. anyone who wants to preceed that with a colour of any kind could be construed as racial.

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

It's not that Hawk, are people not allowed different opinions on matters, for everyone who took to the streets there were a thousand sat at home it is not as though they didn't care, maybe they did not want to escalate matters.

Let me give you my take on it ........... Lives Matter. anyone who wants to preceed that with a colour of any kind could be construed as racial.

The point the protestors are making is precisely that all lives ought to matter - but they don't think that black lives matter as much as white lives to the powers that be and those who rule over us. No-one is saying that black lives ought to be more important than white lives.

By your take of "Lives Matter", then George Floyd's life mattered. So something went wrong, didn't it?

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

It's not that Hawk, are people not allowed different opinions on matters, for everyone who took to the streets there were a thousand sat at home it is not as though they didn't care, maybe they did not want to escalate matters.

Let me give you my take on it ........... Lives Matter. anyone who wants to preceed that with a colour of any kind could be construed as racial.

If someone came on this message board when Rob Burrow was raising awareness for MND and said 'actually all illnesses matter', how would you respond?

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8 hours ago, wilsontown said:

The point the protestors are making is precisely that all lives ought to matter - but they don't think that black lives matter as much as white lives to the powers that be and those who rule over us. No-one is saying that black lives ought to be more important than white lives.

By your take of "Lives Matter", then George Floyd's life mattered. So something went wrong, didn't it?

 

8 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

If someone came on this message board when Rob Burrow was raising awareness for MND and said 'actually all illnesses matter', how would you respond?

Thanks for the comments guy's, I am not going to say another word on this matter and keep my own council.

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8 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

If someone came on this message board when Rob Burrow was raising awareness for MND and said 'actually all illnesses matter', how would you respond?

Bingo.

Also playing some footage of players from thirty years ago to show how we were once inclusive but not even considering why our teams barely reflect the actual diversity of the communities and towns in which they're located ... it's maybe not the good look that some old men on a forum think it is.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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31 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Bingo.

Also playing some footage of players from thirty years ago to show how we were once inclusive but not even considering why our teams barely reflect the actual diversity of the communities and towns in which they're located ... it's maybe not the good look that some old men on a forum think it is.

Your 'old men' reference is that a deliberate form of stereotyping discrimination against individuals on the basis of their age, do you use it systematically or just casually?

Two things, firstly I have not opened the link so have not seen the footage to form an opinion

40 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Councel. Guys. 

HTH. 😀

Well spotted John, thanks for the spelling lesson.

 

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