Passage to SL?

[cookey]

It was because many clubs dont have two pennies to rub together and yet want to play in SL.

1 minute ago, sweaty craiq said:

In 2018 many clubs outside the middle 8's struggled to raise a full 17 due to the transfer window being closed very early.

I keep reading the various 'disaster' threads associated with union and wonder what the league 'disaster' thread would be like. Lets face it,various small minded clubs didn't want any money going to Toronto,so that they could pick up an extra few thousand pounds to keep them going for an extra year.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

12 minutes ago, cookey said:

It was because many clubs dont have two pennies to rub together and yet want to play in SL.

I keep reading the various 'disaster' threads associated with union and wonder what the league 'disaster' thread would be like. Lets face it,various small minded clubs didn't want any money going to Toronto,so that they could pick up an extra few thousand pounds to keep them going for an extra year.

How many current SL clubs have many pennies to rub together without central funding? 6?

[silverback]

16 minutes ago, cookey said:

It was because many clubs dont have two pennies to rub together and yet want to play in SL.

I keep reading the various 'disaster' threads associated with union and wonder what the league 'disaster' thread would be like. Lets face it,various small minded clubs didn't want any money going to Toronto,so that they could pick up an extra few thousand pounds to keep them going for an extra year.

How are they small minded clubs just because they might be short on funds.plenty a clubs do a fantastic job with little budgets and a massive help from fans/sponsers.Last club to fail had buckets a cash.

[Wakefield Ram]

On 29/07/2020 at 11:28, Tommygilf said:

Toulouse are clearly who Hetherington is intimating in his comments. London were in Super League less than a year ago and have one of the best examples of youth player development in the whole game whilst also being fully professional. Then Leigh who have recent super league experience and good crowds but are not wholly full time and Fev are who are a lesser version of Leigh by those metrics. 

Perhaps should include Bradford on that list too.

Fev a lesser version of Leigh!!!! Get your hard hat and flak jacket on when the Fev fans read that

[Smudger06]

1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Both Leigh and Fev in the Championship Shield Final struggled to name sides without the goodwill of a load of sides. I know Saints sent a couple to Leigh for that game. 

Those Clubs didn't achieve their objectives in that season and cut loose some full timers whom will have had clauses for not making S8 qualifiers - coupled with the back end of a very long season (injuries) left them with a couple of subs short each. They did actually field 17 man matchday teams by methods contained within the operational rules. 

[tms]

1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Both Leigh and Fev in the Championship Shield Final struggled to name sides without the goodwill of a load of sides. I know Saints sent a couple to Leigh for that game. 

FEV suffered * injuries IN last 4 games  of regular season   and start of the shield and with  the injuries to other players they all ready had were reduced to 13 fit players they asked the RFL if they could sign players on short term contracts but were refused  so in one game against leigh they played with 13 players   and the one DR  player who qualified because he  played five games in regular season

However when it got to the final and only because it was a final the RFL allowed FEV three leeds academy players  to play so along side the one DR to make up the 17 match day squad

[Oldbear]

6 hours ago, Snowys Backside said:

Leave SL at 11 teams with two relegated next year. That will make it competitive because lets be honest, there are some SL clubs currently who have ridden the crest of a wave for years and in deep dirt financially. A stint in the Championship to get rid of some dead wood and win a few games might do them some good. They might even get to spend some money on some of their grounds !!!

Championship top 10 to remain in SL2 with the promoted side going to SL.

The foundations by default of having 20 strong RL clubs with a 1 up and 1 down system in 2022.

28 fixtures in both Leagues and a Magic weekend of SL2 fixtures (5 of them) on Sat with SL1 being the Sunday.

No bias on the Magic weekend, everything played for based on league positions the week previously  1v2  3v4  5v6  7v8 and 9v10  

I dont see a future for Toronto to be Honest. I get France, I get Ireland and I get Scotland and Wales, but Canada, No. The honeymoon is over and RL must be the priority over one trans Atlantic team from Canada. My Support for Batley, Dewsbury Keighley Swinton, Cumbria etc........ will always outweigh that of any team similar to Toronto I'm afraid.

Speaking as someone who lives in Canada, albeit the West Coast, I find I have to agree with you about Toronto. The only way having transatlantic teams in the competition can ever work is if they have a signed, sealed delivered TV deal with North American TV BEFORE they take the field, followed by a signed, sealed delivered contract with a travel sponsor, ideally an airline and a hotel chain. You would also need a plan in place to cover what happens should such a pandemic ever happen again, and don’t say it couldn’t because you have to prepare for global disasters. Given that I can’t see anything like that happening for the foreseeable future, especially when you consider the state of both the UK and Canadian economy post Covid (and I’m not even going to speculate on the position south of our border), then I’m afraid the dream is almost certainly dead.

So how to get to 12 teams (if indeed we have to, maybe the RFL will cite Covid as the unforeseen circumstance that prevents them from delivering a 12 team comp, and maybe they will get away with it for a year)? For me no parachuting a team in, too many legal issues and if we are going to 12 then let’s have a mini tournament, prize at stake, a place in SL. Three rules though which you have to pass before you can enter

1. A full audit of accounts for the entrants, with the RFL denying entry to any team with financial irregularities.

2. No dual reg players allowed

3. No short term signings for the tournament. You go with the guys you currently have contracted to you, if you want to add any players you must also sign them to a contract for 2021, this gets round teams loaning 4 players from Saints or Leeds for a couple of months.

 

[Snowys Backside]

11 hours ago, Oldbear said:

Speaking as someone who lives in Canada, albeit the West Coast, I find I have to agree with you about Toronto. The only way having transatlantic teams in the competition can ever work is if they have a signed, sealed delivered TV deal with North American TV BEFORE they take the field, followed by a signed, sealed delivered contract with a travel sponsor, ideally an airline and a hotel chain. You would also need a plan in place to cover what happens should such a pandemic ever happen again, and don’t say it couldn’t because you have to prepare for global disasters. Given that I can’t see anything like that happening for the foreseeable future, especially when you consider the state of both the UK and Canadian economy post Covid (and I’m not even going to speculate on the position south of our border), then I’m afraid the dream is almost certainly dead.

So how to get to 12 teams (if indeed we have to, maybe the RFL will cite Covid as the unforeseen circumstance that prevents them from delivering a 12 team comp, and maybe they will get away with it for a year)? For me no parachuting a team in, too many legal issues and if we are going to 12 then let’s have a mini tournament, prize at stake, a place in SL. Three rules though which you have to pass before you can enter

1. A full audit of accounts for the entrants, with the RFL denying entry to any team with financial irregularities.

2. No dual reg players allowed

3. No short term signings for the tournament. You go with the guys you currently have contracted to you, if you want to add any players you must also sign them to a contract for 2021, this gets round teams loaning 4 players from Saints or Leeds for a couple of months.

 

If it is absolutely paramount that SL needs to be 12 next year, then I agree, a mini comp of teams who meet the criteria for promotion this year is needed or if not possible, the only other way would be to come up with a system to 'grade' a team capable in the Championship to give them a go.

I think the RFL have missed a trick as both Leigh and Featherstone have requested to fulfill Torontos fixtures this year which could have been a good benchmark for the RFL to make a decision for 2021. After all, relegation is null and void. Leigh would have done it at no cost to SL either yet these two teams wanted to play the season. Talk about double whammy.

If it was a grading system, in my opinion only Leigh and Toulouse would be looked at with Leigh being the safest option by a considerable distance to compete in 2021. Derek could put together quite a squad should he get the nod as they didn't even finish bottom last time and play in one of the best stadiums in the country.

The following year, I can see Fev / Toulouse easily replacing Wakefield.

[sweaty craiq]

18 hours ago, silverback said:

How are they small minded clubs just because they might be short on funds.plenty a clubs do a fantastic job with little budgets and a massive help from fans/sponsers.Last club to fail had buckets a cash.

Widnes had buckets a cash, or do you mean TW??

[silverback]

1 minute ago, sweaty craiq said:

Widnes had buckets a cash, or do you mean TW??

think it were brilliant how widnes fans dug deep and sold of old shirts and stuff.but TWP seemed to just waste money from the start,never thought it would dry up just when it got tough and they could a turned things round and come out for 2021 looking well..

[dkw]

17 hours ago, POR said:

FEV suffered * injuries IN last 4 games  of regular season   and start of the shield and with  the injuries to other players they all ready had were reduced to 13 fit players they asked the RFL if they could sign players on short term contracts but were refused  so in one game against leigh they played with 13 players   and the one DR  player who qualified because he  played five games in regular season

However when it got to the final and only because it was a final the RFL allowed FEV three leeds academy players  to play so along side the one DR to make up the 17 match day squad

So there were extenuating circumstances why those clubs struggled to fulfil their obligations....that reminds me of something...

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

1 hour ago, dkw said:

So there were extenuating circumstances why those clubs struggled to fulfil their obligations....that reminds me of something...

They did fulfil their obligations though, and one would have done so even without the special dispensation

[dkw]

1 hour ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

They did fulfil their obligations though, and one would have done so even without the special dispensation

Are you sure, if so then why were they given special dispensation? A quick google says Leigh got allowance to sign several new players from SL academies so they could raise a team, did this happen?

[tms]

43 minutes ago, dkw said:

Are you suref so then why were they given special dispensation? A quick google says Leigh got allowance to sign several new players from SL academies so they could raise a team, did this happen?

yes FEV would have payed the final with 14 just like the semi

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/53642/rfl-statement-featherstone-rovers-v-leigh-centurions

FEV played 3 leigh played 7

[MADREDNIGE]

It makes me laugh when fans say Fev, Cas and Wakey are too close together, arnt Saints, Wigan and Warrington pretty close togeather? It's a case of Iam all right Jack in SL!!! 

[Snowys Backside]

20 hours ago, MADREDNIGE said:

It makes me laugh when fans say Fev, Cas and Wakey are too close together, arnt Saints, Wigan and Warrington pretty close togeather? It's a case of Iam all right Jack in SL!!! 

To be fair, Wigan, Warrington and St Helens are very big Towns who can hold their own in their own right, even with the proximity of Manchester and Liverpool and other Premiership Football Teams being round the corner.

 

I am all for the underdog though. If your good enough, your good enough. Living in Warrington being a 'Little Leigh' fan for all of my Life, i will always support the Cherry and White.

SL just needs to be the best 12 teams, irrespective of location. Unfortunately, we have become location obsessed, hence Newcastle's bid now for SL !!  Its boring to be honest.

[Smudger06]

6 hours ago, Snowys Backside said:

To be fair, Wigan, Warrington and St Helens are very big Towns who can hold their own in their own right, even with the proximity of Manchester and Liverpool and other Premiership Football Teams being round the corner.

 

I am all for the underdog though. If your good enough, your good enough. Living in Warrington being a 'Little Leigh' fan for all of my Life, i will always support the Cherry and White.

SL just needs to be the best 12 teams, irrespective of location. Unfortunately, we have become location obsessed, hence Newcastle's bid now for SL !!  Its boring to be honest.

You are right, as a sport, fans, owners the lot, all gone bonkers over the perfect location. People always mention the GB Packers in location situations, FC Schalke 04, a successful Club with a large following is a suburb of a German City the size of Hull, not a city itself, just an area of a small to medium sized city. Basically a Hunslet (except that's a suburb of a much larger city than Gelsenkirchen) . What matters first and foremost is stability (longevity) of any given Club and then competitiveness (on field success, in small bite sized steps in the right direction) ...... the ideal location (famous mega city name) pales into insignificance compared to the two main points mentioned above. 

[Oldbear]

2 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

You are right, as a sport, fans, owners the lot, all gone bonkers over the perfect location. People always mention the GB Packers in location situations, FC Schalke 04, a successful Club with a large following is a suburb of a German City the size of Hull, not a city itself, just an area of a small to medium sized city. Basically a Hunslet (except that's a suburb of a much larger city than Gelsenkirchen) . What matters first and foremost is stability (longevity) of any given Club and then competitiveness (on field success, in small bite sized steps in the right direction) ...... the ideal location (famous mega city name) pales into insignificance compared to the two main points mentioned above. 

We have a winner! For too many years when it comes to expansion the RFL has been blinded by location with any expansion bid rather than asking, “how stable is this application, who is funding the application and what happens if the main founder dies/loses interest/has problems with their other businesses thus limiting the ability to fund the RL club, then after 5 and 10 years where does this team realistically expect to be“. I’m in favour of expansion in RL, I think it’s essential for the game to survive, but we have to be more careful in how we do it and not be obsessed with getting pins in maps.

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

You are right, as a sport, fans, owners the lot, all gone bonkers over the perfect location. People always mention the GB Packers in location situations, FC Schalke 04, a successful Club with a large following is a suburb of a German City the size of Hull, not a city itself, just an area of a small to medium sized city. Basically a Hunslet (except that's a suburb of a much larger city than Gelsenkirchen) . What matters first and foremost is stability (longevity) of any given Club and then competitiveness (on field success, in small bite sized steps in the right direction) ...... the ideal location (famous mega city name) pales into insignificance compared to the two main points mentioned above. 

Same could be said for Everton or Aston Villa. These clubs, by virtue of the sport's popularity as well, have grown massively beyond those domestic boundaries. 

[JM2010]

Just stick with p and r but with some minimum criteria which doesn't include location or size of the town.

Academy and junior development

Some sort of stadium standards

Income and finances

[Smudger06]

43 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Same could be said for Everton or Aston Villa. These clubs, by virtue of the sport's popularity as well, have grown massively beyond those domestic boundaries. 

Yes, however the key point is those are within major cities. Gelsenkirchen is about the size of Hull. 

[Tommygilf]

27 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Yes, however the key point is those are within major cities. Gelsenkirchen is about the size of Hull. 

Yes, but Schalke represent the whole Saar region(?) and exist in the rather peculiar world of German football.

[Smudger06]

11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Yes, but Schalke represent the whole Saar region(?) and exist in the rather peculiar world of German football.

Naw it's not Saarland, Schalke is surrounded by neighbours 1. FC Koln (Cologne) Fortuna Dusseldorf, Borrussia Dortmund much larger and well know cities but the only Club that does better than them in the vicinity is Dortmund. 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Smudger06 said:

Naw it's not Saarland, Schalke is surrounded by neighbours 1. FC Koln (Cologne) Fortuna Dusseldorf, Borrussia Dortmund much larger and well know cities but the only Club that does better than them in the vicinity is Dortmund. 

Apologies, without looking it up and knowing their mining background that was what I assumed. 

That said I'm not entirely sure the German league is an excellent example given its relative competitiveness and financials compared to the other big leagues.

[Smudger06]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Apologies, without looking it up and knowing their mining background that was what I assumed. 

That said I'm not entirely sure the German league is an excellent example given its relative competitiveness and financials compared to the other big leagues.

Yes it's a very competitive League overall, not including Bayern. It's true German football is a peculiar world. But the miners are German Football's version of Featherstone Rovers, their history is almost identical, geographic location, compared to bigger market (catchment area) rivals, similar. They grew their following by appealing to the working class masses across Germany. Something RL Clubs fail to achieve to great effect (in the main and as a rule)