What makes a "good referee"?

[DavidM]

What do we think about refs calling players offside ? Is that the refs job , is he interfering in the game ... if a player is offside he’s ill disciplined and that’s a potential penalty to the opposition ?

[Wellsy4HullFC]

5 hours ago, DavidM said:

What do we think about refs calling players offside ? Is that the refs job , is he interfering in the game ... if a player is offside he’s ill disciplined and that’s a potential penalty to the opposition ?

As has been alluded to, players and supporters much prefer the game flow, so if you can make a call on a player bring offside BEFORE he commits an offence, the game flows better.

I'd much rather that than the alternative of blowing whistles ad infinitum. 

[unapologetic pedant]

On 07/08/2020 at 19:30, Wellsy4HullFC said:

As has been alluded to, players and supporters much prefer the game flow, so if you can make a call on a player bring offside BEFORE he commits an offence, the game flows better.

I'd much rather that than the alternative of blowing whistles ad infinitum. 

We should remember that the move from 5 to 10m was a big leap. To go from arguing about whether players were 4 or 5m back as the test of legality, to the legal figure being doubled, ought to (and did) radically change the way offside was policed.

Something which is "a mile offside" with 5m is well onside with 10. There`s nothing magical about the number, whatever it is, the purpose is to ensure sufficient space between the sides. Officials can achieve this under 10m with a more relaxed approach than under 5m. Cajoling and warning individuals and teams through the game, only penalising repeat offenders or where a clear advantage has been gained is the method now.

Of course, those who like to shout "Gerrumonside" will do so whether the rule is 5m, 10m, 15m, 20m. But the management of offside is far better now than when I first watched the game. There used to be far more penalties.

[The Rocket]

27 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

But the management of offside is far better now than when I first watched the game. There used to be far more penalties.

When we went back to one referee there was talk that the touch judges would be used more to assist the referees, especially with the offside. This made sense if the referee was watching the ruck, the touchie  could align himself  with where the 10 metres was  to give the players a point to fall back to. Could be done on both sides of the field, which then frees the ref up to `manage` the game. I don`t mind a ref who gives ` instructuions` especially on marginal calls i.e. ` keep them down, No.13`, ` roll away no.8` you get my gist, rather than immediately penalising. This lets the team know they are on notice and may reduce offending.

I am indifferent to ref`s using players names but being old-fashioned like it when they use numbers.

[Marauder]

On 03/08/2020 at 12:27, daz39 said:

Very, and thankfully referee's do already get a high percentage of decisions correct, we have to allow a small percentage for human error too though.

I suppose a good referee also allows for the players committing human errors 

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

When we went back to one referee there was talk that the touch judges would be used more to assist the referees, especially with the offside. This made sense if the referee was watching the ruck, the touchie  could align himself  with where the 10 metres was  to give the players a point to fall back to. Could be done on both sides of the field, which then frees the ref up to `manage` the game. I don`t mind a ref who gives ` instructuions` especially on marginal calls i.e. ` keep them down, No.13`, ` roll away no.8` you get my gist, rather than immediately penalising. This lets the team know they are on notice and may reduce offending.

I am indifferent to ref`s using players names but being old-fashioned like it when they use numbers.

As an advocate of "only call things for which there is clear evidence, any doubt play on", across the rulebook, I`m always nervous about involving Touch Judges more. 

To have 3 people who have to be satisfied that there wasn`t a forward pass, wasn`t a knock-on, wasn`t an obstruction, or in this case wasn`t any offside, is inviting a more interventionist style of officiating. Also, Touchies can incline to the over-zealous lest their role be perceived as peripheral. Some of the knock-on calls they make from 20m away, when the ref is happy to play on, in particular drive me nuts. Mercifully, in relation to offside, they generally confine themselves to a subordinate part, helping the ref keep everyone sufficiently honest.

Obscure point. In Turkish RL the Touchies go back the 10m and put their flag up. It`s pretty disconcerting, since out of the corner of your eye, you`re continually seeing a flag raised, and think there`s a problem or the bloke`s about to run on the pitch. Something must have been erroneously added or subtracted to the translation of the rules.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

6 hours ago, The Rocket said:

When we went back to one referee there was talk that the touch judges would be used more to assist the referees, especially with the offside. This made sense if the referee was watching the ruck, the touchie  could align himself  with where the 10 metres was  to give the players a point to fall back to. Could be done on both sides of the field, which then frees the ref up to `manage` the game. I don`t mind a ref who gives ` instructuions` especially on marginal calls i.e. ` keep them down, No.13`, ` roll away no.8` you get my gist, rather than immediately penalising. This lets the team know they are on notice and may reduce offending.

I am indifferent to ref`s using players names but being old-fashioned like it when they use numbers.

Because I am an ice hockey fan as well as a rugby league one, I am used to the idea that offsides are spotted and whistled up by linesmen/women.  They are invariably better placed to do so than the referee and - as you rightly say, Rocket - this frees up the ref to concentrate on other matters.  So I would give RL 'touchies' whistles and let them call the offsides themselves.

[Padge]

On 03/08/2020 at 17:40, DEANO said:

In one word. Consistency 

Even if he is constantly wrong?

 

[DEANO]

1 hour ago, Padge said:

Even if he is constantly wrong?

 

Yep. what I’m talking about is a ref who allows offsides all the game then pings one at a critical time

[Padge]

13 hours ago, DEANO said:

Yep. what I’m talking about is a ref who allows offsides all the game then pings one at a critical time

But you don't know if he has been giving warnings on the run, that is something that happens often.

[The Rocket]

22 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Also, Touchies can incline to the over-zealous lest their role be perceived as peripheral

Nothing more annoying than the puffed up, self-important little bantams they have in union sprinting onto the field with flag flying to point out a particular peccadillo that has been perceived to have been prosecuted. We don`t want that.

With regards your other gripe it makes you wonder whether Touch Judges should be restricted to a set number of infringements they can involve themselves in, i.e. stay out of forward passes, etc. Probably a better course of action is to encourage the ` if in doubt , butt out `.

Love those Turks playing League.

[The Rocket]

17 hours ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

Because I am an ice hockey fan as well as a rugby league one, I am used to the idea that offsides are spotted and whistled up by linesmen/women.  They are invariably better placed to do so than the referee and - as you rightly say, Rocket - this frees up the ref to concentrate on other matters.  So I would give RL 'touchies' whistles and let them call the offsides themselves.

Got to say Wiltshire the thought of touchies with whistles sounds dangerous.

Not sure whether your a Dragons fan, but how about the form that Dufty has been in lately, setting up tries with those face balls. If you see a Dragons game on TV over there look out for the bloke with the banner in the crowd that says  " Lay (one) on  MacDuffty ", that would be me.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

5 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Got to say Wiltshire the thought of touchies with whistles sounds dangerous.

Not sure whether your a Dragons fan, but how about the form that Dufty has been in lately, setting up tries with those face balls. If you see a Dragons game on TV over there look out for the bloke with the banner in the crowd that says  " Lay (one) on  MacDuffty ", that would be me.

I think the idea of linesmen with whistles sounding a bit alarming to you is simply because you are not used to it, Rocket.  When I go to an ice hockey match, I don't think that any of the fans (me included) give it a second thought.  It's just disappointing that they so often call players of my team offside when obviously they are not, and yet miss umpteen infringements by the other side's players...!

Am I a Dragons' fan?  Yes and no!  No, not in the sense I think that you mean, namely St George-Illawara, but yes, in that I support the Catalans Dragons, because I think a strong French team, in the French heartlands of rugby league, is good for the northern hemisphere game (and at their best, they are always exciting to watch)  I suppose there is a sort of link, albeit highly tenuous, between the Dragons RL teams from the two hemispheres in that St George is, of course, the patron saint of Catalonia.

[The Rocket]

9 hours ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

I think the idea of linesmen with whistles sounding a bit alarming to you is simply because you are not used to it, Rocket.  When I go to an ice hockey match, I don't think that any of the fans (me included) give it a second thought.  It's just disappointing that they so often call players of my team offside when obviously they are not, and yet miss umpteen infringements by the other side's players...!

Am I a Dragons' fan?  Yes and no!  No, not in the sense I think that you mean, namely St George-Illawara, but yes, in that I support the Catalans Dragons, because I think a strong French team, in the French heartlands of rugby league, is good for the northern hemisphere game (and at their best, they are always exciting to watch)  I suppose there is a sort of link, albeit highly tenuous, between the Dragons RL teams from the two hemispheres in that St George is, of course, the patron saint of Catalonia.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the offside rules in ice hockey would be the same as offside rules in soccer, where it is required that the attacking side cannot procced down field any further than the last defender. This of course only applies in your opponents half of the field.

Therefore policing the off-side rule in ice hockey really only requires enforcing this as opposed to the continually monitoring of the 10 metre rule as in league.

Your motivations for supporting Catalans are identical to mine. The competition is far more interesting for having them involved. The coverage that James Maloney`s sojourn in the south of France has been getting over here is a wonderful promotion for young people considering getting into the game and the game itself.

The Dragons over here were traditionally known as St. George, who of course slayed the Dragon. In fact on the jersey that Rocket Reddy is wearing top left and the same that I had as a boy, close inspection would reveal St. George actually lancing the Dragon. Now that they are often called the Dragons the emblem rather ridiculously has the Dragon next to St. George. It is somewhat reminiscent of the comic series He-Man and his off-sider Battle Cat.

[Lowdesert]

11 hours ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

I think the idea of linesmen with whistles sounding a bit alarming to you is simply because you are not used to it, Rocket.  When I go to an ice hockey match, I don't think that any of the fans (me included) give it a second thought.  It's just disappointing that they so often call players of my team offside when obviously they are not, and yet miss umpteen infringements by the other side's players...!

Am I a Dragons' fan?  Yes and no!  No, not in the sense I think that you mean, namely St George-Illawara, but yes, in that I support the Catalans Dragons, because I think a strong French team, in the French heartlands of rugby league, is good for the northern hemisphere game (and at their best, they are always exciting to watch)  I suppose there is a sort of link, albeit highly tenuous, between the Dragons RL teams from the two hemispheres in that St George is, of course, the patron saint of Catalonia.

I would like to see TJs involved more in decision making but they probably already are as in NRL and SL they are 'miked up'.  They should be speaking to the Ref all the time when necessary.

The area for me is when a player clearly puts a boot a foot into touch directly in front of them and it still gets referred to the VR.  

[DavidM]

There was a ref yesterday watched Adam Reynolds chip over the top regather and score and went to the bunker checking for offside . Just habit I guess 

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

7 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but the offside rules in ice hockey would be the same as offside rules in soccer, where it is required that the attacking side cannot procced down field any further than the last defender. This of course only applies in your opponents half of the field.

Therefore policing the off-side rule in ice hockey really only requires enforcing this as opposed to the continually monitoring of the 10 metre rule as in league.

 

It's actually simpler than soccer and easier for all - players, linesmen/women and fans alike - to see.  Two blue lines divide the rink into three zones and you cannot enter the zone you are attacking before the puck does.  So you could actually be closer than any defenceman to their netminder (i.e what would be offside in soccer) when the puck is passed to you, so long as you have yet to cross the blue line.  This, of course, gives one of ice hockey's many exciting moments, the skate in on the netminder by an unimpeded, opposing forward.

RL certainly needs more judgement than ice hockey in that the ten metres line depends wholly on where the tackled play regains his feet

6 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

I would like to see TJs involved more in decision making but they probably already are as in NRL and SL they are 'miked up'.  They should be speaking to the Ref all the time when necessary.

The area for me is when a player clearly puts a boot a foot into touch directly in front of them and it still gets referred to the VR.  

I can see the logic of what you say, Lowdesert, and I'm sure good teams of officials do indeed talk all the time.  I also share your frustration about clear 'foot in touch' rulings being double-checked on video.

 

7 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Your motivations for supporting Catalans are identical to mine. The competition is far more interesting for having them involved. The coverage that James Maloney`s sojourn in the south of France has been getting over here is a wonderful promotion for young people considering getting into the game and the game itself.

The Dragons over here were traditionally known as St. George, who of course slayed the Dragon. In fact on the jersey that Rocket Reddy is wearing top left and the same that I had as a boy, close inspection would reveal St. George actually lancing the Dragon. Now that they are often called the Dragons the emblem rather ridiculously has the Dragon next to St. George. It is somewhat reminiscent of the comic series He-Man and his off-sider Battle Cat.

That the Catalan patron saint is St George explains why Barcelona soccer club have the cross of St George in the top left part of their badge.

[Lowdesert]

5 hours ago, DavidM said:

There was a ref yesterday watched Adam Reynolds chip over the top regather and score and went to the bunker checking for offside . Just habit I guess 

I think it’s pathetic.  If someone else had picked the ball up then fair enough.  

 

[DavidM]

8 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

I think it’s pathetic.  If someone else had picked the ball up then fair enough.  

 

The mindset they’ve got into . He was standing next to him as well . Just habit of checking everything 

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

15 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

I would like to see TJs involved more in decision making but they probably already are as in NRL and SL they are 'miked up'.  They should be speaking to the Ref all the time when necessary.

The area for me is when a player clearly puts a boot a foot into touch directly in front of them and it still gets referred to the VR.  

I agreed with you above on this point, Lowdesert, and still do, but the irony, therefore, of the Briscoe opening try for Leeds is not lost on me!

[Wolford6]

Robert Hicks called the two captains together yesterday and told them that the next player who waved his arms about and questioned a refereeing decision would get 10 minutes in the sinbin. That was good reffing.

[ivans82]

Used to love Thierry Aliberts style of reffing  , hardly ever went to the screen , completely ignored players confronting or questioning him , did have the odd problem on tackle counting though .

[DavidM]

On 17/08/2020 at 07:57, Wolford6 said:

Robert Hicks called the two captains together yesterday and told them that the next player who waved his arms about and questioned a refereeing decision would get 10 minutes in the sinbin. That was good reffing.

It is if they actually do it . Every referee has the next time this happens lecture ... next time someone runs in , I’ll take action . And they say that 5 times . 

[meast]

Someone who keeps the majority of fans happy by "helping" their teams? It seems that's the only thing that can appease some people.

The amount of time I read and hear fans complaining that the referee didn't help them, or didn't give them owt, our fans are some of the worst!

A good referee to me is one who does their job to the best of their ability, to ensure the game is played in a fair and sporting manner, to understand the game, understand the players, and not try to be their mates etc.

 

[DavidM]

1 hour ago, meast said:

Someone who keeps the majority of fans happy by "helping" their teams? It seems that's the only thing that can appease some people.

Referee Crashley . Absolutely rubbish caning us in games . Had a game here where we won and he did ok by us and I thought he had a very  good game for once