Dunbar Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 This isn't a question of the value of the scrum... we have done that one to death. But let's say that we decide to do away with the scrum altogether after the Covid measures are finished (the two games yesterday looked pretty good without them) but the NRL/Southern Hemisphere decided to keep them. I know that we have always slightly different laws across competitions, which is a bit of an annoyance to me, but what would be the long term impact of one competition having the scrum and one not... despite it being a non event the presence (or not) of the scrum is a pretty big difference? "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulliac Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 I think the basic rule is WE follow the Aussies, not the other way round. Which suggests it won't happen. No team is an island......................................... http://www.flickr.com/photos/31337109@N03/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted August 3, 2020 Author Share Posted August 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, Bulliac said: I think the basic rule is WE follow the Aussies, not the other way round. Which suggests it won't happen. I agree that is typically how it works and I don't think anything like removing the scrum over here would even be on the radar under normal circumstances. But should we get to the end of the season and it is a big success then it may lead to a different decision. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moove Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Short term I can see it affecting fitness levels. There's a natural break in play the players are no longer getting on top of the other changes we've made to speed up the game. If things continue at the intensity of yesterday's games I can see fatigue setting in quickly and quality dropping. Longer term maybe that would give us an edge on fitness as players adapt? Although in fairness we're already a bit behind on that front. Aside from that, set plays from scrums seem to get rarer and rarer these days so I'm not sure we'd be at too much of a disadvantage there. You'd think it would be easy enough to pick up a couple of plays over the training before internationals, although lack of practice defending against them might be more of an issue. I didn't really miss scrums yesterday but like you it annoys me that we play the sport with different rules. Hopefully the NRL will see this as a trial and they and SL can get their heads together at the end of the season and decide one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 I believe it’s inevitable scrums will go. For once, us Brits got there first. They won’t be missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted August 3, 2020 Author Share Posted August 3, 2020 Again, let me stress, I wasn't really thinking of this thread as being the value of the scrum or the benefits of keeping it or binning it. Rather the impact should we lose it and the SH keep it. Is it the start of thinking of it as two different codes? Sounds alarmist but I wouldn't want any more barriers to Rugby League international competitions or growth because the laws aren't internationally unified. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Hamlet was way ahead of his time in musing on the merits of scrums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastLondonMike Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 If the NRL were adamant about keeping it, and we ditched it, something as simple as agreeing certain rules before any internationals were played would probably be the outcome, which would probably cause certain frictions, especially if scrums were used, and then used as an advantage. I used to enjoy it when teams would put on a decent attacking scrum play. No one seems to view it as an attacking opportunity anymore, which is one of the reasons many wont be too sad to see it go (though sure there are plenty of other reasons). All it would take is one coach to start using the scrum as an attacking weapon and if successful, all will follow suit. It's the way coaching trends work these days. Newham Dockers - Champions 2013. Rugby League For East London. 100% Cockney Rugby League!Twitter: @NewhamDockersRL - Get following! www.newhamdockers.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE RED ROOSTER Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 As explained to me, the two boards meet before a tour / series takes place to agree the rules, remember up until March the NRL had two referees and Super League only the one. Yet International League was played with the one as agreed by both boards. I would agree though I cannot think of another sport where the basic rules of the game differ depending on the country. Quote When the pinch comes the common people will turn out to be more intelligent than the clever ones. I certainly hope so. George Orwell You either own NFTs or women’s phone numbers but not both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 I’ve always thought it mental that there’s basically two power bases of the game and we often play under different rules and interpretations ! Crazy . Then we get to internationals and it’s something else ... but people still wonder what the rules are . Are we playing it with the foot , well just wait and see when it starts . We must have uniform rules like football from a central source , not you do it so we better get in step . Or look at how they do it , should we do that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastLondonMike Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 All it would take is both sides to agree in forming an international rules committee. I think the NRL currently has one, though who is on it and how big it is im not sure, though a quick google search would probably find some answers. Add a few International voices to that committee and we're on to a winner. Build a process into when and how any new rules/amendments can be reviewed and inserted into the game and everyones happy. Feels like all it needs is the two main parties in the RFL and the ARLC to communicate. Newham Dockers - Champions 2013. Rugby League For East London. 100% Cockney Rugby League!Twitter: @NewhamDockersRL - Get following! www.newhamdockers.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 18 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said: I would agree though I cannot think of another sport where the basic rules of the game differ depending on the country. A slight diversion: ice hockey. https://www.liveabout.com/olympic-hockey-rules-versus-nhl-rules-2778897 Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 I must admit to not stressing too much about local rules in different comps. I think it probably happens more than we think across the world. But on the scrums, we need to be very careful here, this isn't a minor tweak like most of the others are, and it changes the game at least aesthetically quite a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 27 minutes ago, Dave T said: I must admit to not stressing too much about local rules in different comps. I think it probably happens more than we think across the world. But on the scrums, we need to be very careful here, this isn't a minor tweak like most of the others are, and it changes the game at least aesthetically quite a lot. Agree. If SL play for 2 seasons without scrums and the NRL stick with scrums, by the time the world cup comes along those players will be really disadvantaged. Training, conditionally, positionally et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 The Laws of the Game must be upheld. The Scrum has its own Chapter, Chapter 12 of the Laws of the Game. Otherwise we are not United and not playing the same game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 21 hours ago, Moove said: Short term I can see it affecting fitness levels. There's a natural break in play the players are no longer getting on top of the other changes we've made to speed up the game. If things continue at the intensity of yesterday's games I can see fatigue setting in quickly and quality dropping. Longer term maybe that would give us an edge on fitness as players adapt? Although in fairness we're already a bit behind on that front. Aside from that, set plays from scrums seem to get rarer and rarer these days so I'm not sure we'd be at too much of a disadvantage there. You'd think it would be easy enough to pick up a couple of plays over the training before internationals, although lack of practice defending against them might be more of an issue. I didn't really miss scrums yesterday but like you it annoys me that we play the sport with different rules. Hopefully the NRL will see this as a trial and they and SL can get their heads together at the end of the season and decide one way or another. Apparently tries from scrums in the NRL have significantly increased. I don’t have figures, just heard a commentator say it a week or two ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 21 hours ago, Dunbar said: Again, let me stress, I wasn't really thinking of this thread as being the value of the scrum or the benefits of keeping it or binning it. Rather the impact should we lose it and the SH keep it. Is it the start of thinking of it as two different codes? Sounds alarmist but I wouldn't want any more barriers to Rugby League international competitions or growth because the laws aren't internationally unified. Whichever league plays to or closest to the IRL Laws will benefit slightly. Scrum plays for the pro and fitness for the negative query of keeping scrums. I agree, to consider this the dawn of a new code is alarmist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean de Bordeaux Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Rugby without scrum (even without pushing), is not rugby. The play the ball restart is stupid ( a play the ball is after the ruck, not without ruck...). A tap restart, direct or with possible touch kicking, is more logic after the last tackle or instead of the scrum adjournment (2020) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Bring em back The game is sh/t€ without them. Look at the scorelines since the resumption of the season. A team struggling or off to a bad start, or even just have a bad 5 minute period are on the backfoot with no time to reset or reorganise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 I was always for keeping them, that was before seeing games without them. I’ve not noticed anything that suggests the game needs them back in the slightest. Apart from Masters rugby when they are essential - we need that break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippet13 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Not missed them at all. Combined with the restart rule it feels like an evolutionary leap forward and a good one if we get to see more rugby of the type St Helen's and Salford put on today. I think it also has the potential to push us another step ahead of RU (who will never abolish the scrum) in terms of entertainment value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippet13 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 On 04/08/2020 at 11:49, Scubby said: Agree. If SL play for 2 seasons without scrums and the NRL stick with scrums, by the time the world cup comes along those players will be really disadvantaged. Training, conditionally, positionally et al. Hopefully the NRL will stick with the scrums and we can somehow sneak through an international rule change to omit them a fortnight before RLWC2021 starts - the Aussies wouldn't hesitate to do the same thing if it gave them an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 How is it entertaining to see cricket scores run up every match? It's already exhausting to play when there is scrums. Let's make playing the game even more difficult for people to participate in en masse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rocket Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 No appetite for getting rid of scrums over here, Parra`s big push and win against the feed yesterday was greeted with much excitement, there has been more tries from scrum plays this year and everyone loves seeing centre on centre without a second rower standing next to him. Proceed with the knowledge that scrums aren`t going anywhere over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrisbaneRhino Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 If you have a team that doesn't have scrums at all against one that does, especially the Kangaroos, you'd get torn apart if they move the ball properly as defenders won't be used to having to defend in that way at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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