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7 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

I'm not an expert but I have seen reports around choirs being badly affected and that one of the reasons for meat packing factories is due to noise they have to shout. Not sure people would be able to not shout, sing etc... Having said that, you are out in the fresh air. I don't know though it's depressing to watch the crowds back in Australia and NZ knowing there's no prospect of that any time soon here.

Forgive my immodesty, WR, but I am an expert on choirs - I sing in a chamber choir, direct and sing in a church choir and work part-time (when not furloughed!) in choir administration.  You are right; choirs have been badly affected; in a nutshell, in this country, they pretty well are not operating.  This is arguably another area in which the government's advice has become increasingly incoherent.  There now seems to be slightly different advice depending whether your choir is professional or amateur  (No, I cannot see the logic either!) 

Participation in choirs is massive; I have seen an estimate of about two million choir members, of all sorts of choir, throughout the UK.  Yet, compared - dare I say on here! - to sport, further research, and easing of lock-down, seems to be progressing at a snail's pace.  PHE are allegedly doing research, but this entails testing, in laboratory conditions, the effects of singers singing.  Some weeks ago, I saw a report in The Times that the research would involve members of Salisbury Cathedral choir.  I subsequently discovered that, in fact, this only meant two of the Lay Vicars (their professional, adult singers) and they were still waiting to be called in for the tests!

You mention choirs being 'badly affected', WR.  Unfortunately, one of the oft-quoted instances is of an American choir that suddenly reported a significant number of covid-19 cases in its ranks.  However, the full story includes that they were predominantly elderly and in many cases with other health conditions, and did not social distance during rehearsal, or in the social breaks, which included eating and drinking together.  So who knows the role that the singing itself actually played.

Sorry, I have probably gone completely off topic, but your comments, WR, though in themselves wholly valid, touched something of a raw - or rather frustrated and inactive - nerve!

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6 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

I could find a place to watch a game and be socially distant. I'd wear a mask, get to the ground alone and leave alone.... and talk utter sheeite to myself instead of my mates who have to shield still.

 

Don't be too hard on yourself, RE.  I am sure you would come out with some absolute pearls of wisdom!

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37 minutes ago, Therein73 said:

..... And if you DO get it, you may not survive it .... Might not be a problem to you, but I sure as sh#t would be pretty miffed if you passed it on to me before you went ...... Richard Heads like you are exactly WHY we can't move forward any quicker ...... PAPPY my buttocks !!!

That’s a bit unfair - the original question asked would you attend if there were NO restrictions (I.e. the government had decided no measures apply). How can you criticise someone following government advice? That isn’t an example of a ‘Richard head’ now, is it?

If he/she had stated they didn’t care about breaking the distancing/mask rules that would have been different.

To put it another way, plenty of things that you partake in (non-organic foods, exploitation of third-world labour, using a mobile device etc) contribute in part to  slightly higher rates of cancer, ill heath etc. But you’re allowed to do it. So you do. As do I.

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Thanks for the responses and the differing stances. I suppose a point that  am trying to assess in my own mind is, if grounds were simply thrown open again whilst the pandemic continues (as it is predicted to do) what kind of walk up crowds might we expect. I suspect that, in the Championship for example, we could see reductions of up to 50% at some clubs. This would likely be unsustainable.

Worrying times get even more worrying for all sports and, for us, RL in particular.

Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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Like most things in the modern world, it's the perception of risk rather than the reality of risk.   A global pandemic is still new to us all and will take time to get used to.

To most of us, the risk of this particular virus is very minor. But it's something new that could affect us, or especially our more elderly loved ones, and this scares us. We are used to flu, heart attacks, and all the other traditional ailments we've grown up with. Now we have another one to deal with. The fear will eventually pass, like it did with 9/11, MRSA, UFOs and those 'pesky communist ideologists'. Maybe we'll have a vaccine, maybe we won't.

If only we were concerned about the real dangers to us - obesity, life-style diseases etc etc. It's weird that a significant amount of kids are clinically obese, a massive amount overweight, and consuming carcinogenic substances through every means possible. WE are shortening their lives by 20 years but we are scared to send them to school over a virus.. Go figure!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Therein73 said:

..... And if you DO get it, you may not survive it .... Might not be a problem to you, but I sure as sh#t would be pretty miffed if you passed it on to me before you went ...... Richard Heads like you are exactly WHY we can't move forward any quicker ...... PAPPY my buttocks !!!

There you go my point proved. Just one question if you go out do you wear a face mask all the time.

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1 hour ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

Don't be too hard on yourself, RE.  I am sure you would come out with some absolute pearls of wisdom!

He's not being hard on himself , nobody listens to him anyway 😂

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I'm not sure what point has been proved -- must have gone over my head ....... As for your question, NO I don't wear a mask all the time -- but I also don't use public transport ( i drive) ... I play golf without a mask ..... I sit OUTSIDE at pubs without a mask .... I stand aside for people to pass me on the street... I will wear a mask in shops, cinemas etc and anywhere else I'm requested to... In other words, I will happily follow the Govt's advice ..... None of which I view as "pappy" ....What I will NOT do is DELIBERATELY put myself, my family or anyone else at risk ..... Unlike your response intimated you would do. 

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1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

Thanks for the responses and the differing stances. I suppose a point that  am trying to assess in my own mind is, if grounds were simply thrown open again whilst the pandemic continues (as it is predicted to do) what kind of walk up crowds might we expect. I suspect that, in the Championship for example, we could see reductions of up to 50% at some clubs. This would likely be unsustainable.

Worrying times get even more worrying for all sports and, for us, RL in particular.

Its interesting. I've see in catering (restaurant and pubs etc) that generally older/shielding people will stay away unless they feel safe. Whilst those not in those categories have been generally amenable to coming out.

If RL clubs go a bit further to make spectators feel safe (very few will be pushing capacity to do that), then I think it won't be too badly affected overall. I think we'll see stages of "openness" anyway.

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4 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

A genuine question for everyone on this forum:

If it was announced that unlimited and unrestricted attendance at sports grounds would be permitted from next week onwards would you be happy to go along as before, or would you still be concerned about mixing with unregulated crowds?

Not if it was unrestricted and unlimited no, we're still in the midst of a pandemic, however, with all covid risk assessments done and measures in place then yes

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Can't see that maintaining social distancing at a Skolars' game would represent much of a problem for me. Maybe I would give the Challenge Cup at Wembley, or internationals a miss at the moment though. 

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12 hours ago, Jack Russell said:

I would certainly go. I work in retail and have been in contact with over 1000 people daily during the whole pandemic. Going to a game wouldmt seem too dissimilar. 

The 1000 people -were they all cheering, jeering, in some cases beered up, berating the ref, pushing to get through the turnstiles in or out? I think that's the difference. 

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As much as I want to see live sport in the flesh at the moment, it would be a no to the OP.

If there were crowd control measures and protections against COVID-19 transmission that might persuade me.

As it is, like many others, I’ve got a responsibility for others in my private life which means mitigating risk of being ill and/or making others ill during a pandemic.

 

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19 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

A genuine question for everyone on this forum:

If it was announced that unlimited and unrestricted attendance at sports grounds would be permitted from next week onwards would you be happy to go along as before, or would you still be concerned about mixing with unregulated crowds?

My answer Is a definite‘not, but luckily, it won’t happen. 
 

Now if some ‘proper’ restrictions were to be put in place I would attend. I have missed the progress (or otherwise) of a match and discussions with friends and foes throughout. With social distancing in place though, I might need a megaphone to communicate. 
 

I think leaving a match after the final whistle would need careful consideration on how spectators would depart. 

Legs, Dews, Legs.
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Come the finals crowds will be allowed in, though limited and distanced with precautions in place so if my team got to them yes i'd go then but as it stands right now no i wouldn't - i have health problems and i aren't missing it that much to risk not only mine but my family/communities health too.

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18 minutes ago, Crown Flatter said:

I think leaving a match after the final whistle would need careful consideration on how spectators would depart. 

Interesting point - definitely something that would need to be thought through.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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20 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

A genuine question for everyone on this forum:

If it was announced that unlimited and unrestricted attendance at sports grounds would be permitted from next week onwards would you be happy to go along as before, or would you still be concerned about mixing with unregulated crowds?

100% would be there... Likely to quite a few SL games if no championdship. Wouldn't want to wear a mask 

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20 hours ago, Therein73 said:

..... And if you DO get it, you may not survive it .... Might not be a problem to you, but I sure as sh#t would be pretty miffed if you passed it on to me before you went ...... Richard Heads like you are exactly WHY we can't move forward any quicker ...... PAPPY my buttocks !!!

There you go, perfectly answered not. Do you actually understand what's happening with the so-called easing of lock-down, then holding back. There are so many anomalies and contradictions with the lock-down restrictions, and in the areas where the lock-down is now being enforced. So instead of trying to wade through all that. Live life as normal as you can. As for being a D******d, well at least I have a brain capable of making my own judgements. As for your buttocks being PAPPY I'll take your word for that.

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