Tex Evans Thigh Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, Whippet13 said: What I mean is some of those full backs are bigger or taller than Tomkins and that seems to get them extra kudos, wrongly. Maybe, but I think his main criticism is from his impact in the NRL, which I dont think was entirely his fault. I mean Dufty is tiny for example, Sam is a very good athlete. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippet13 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said: Maybe, but I think his main criticism is from his impact in the NRL, which I dont think was entirely his fault. I mean Dufty is tiny for example, Sam is a very good athlete. Yeah, that's why I said "some" are bigger. Much of Tomkins' UK criticism comes from his being a niggly arrogant **** when he was a Wigan player. I just think he's reached a maturity tipping point to outgrow that now and become a very complete full back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Whippet13 said: Yeah, that's why I said "some" are bigger. Much of Tomkins' UK criticism comes from his being a niggly arrogant **** when he was a Wigan player. I just think he's reached a maturity tipping point to outgrow that now and become a very complete full back. Good call, it's good to see him back. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 10 hours ago, Futtocks said: Like most fairytales, the notion that Tomkins (before his injury) was a dud in the NRL is one that people love to tell and re-tell. It doesn't make it any more true than the first time, but some people just find fairytales comforting. That works both ways . He went there at the absolute peak of his powers , challenge cups , grand finals , individual accomplishments . So the narrative was how good he was and how he measured up with the best fullbacks . When he was there he just didn’t . It may be unfair , he may have done fine , but it was all relative to what they expected from him down there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 I pointed out on a previous thread that in 2014 (his first season), Tomkins scored13 tries which is more than Billy Slater that year who was widely regarded as the best full back in the game... some say best ever. Tomkins also outperformed Slater in try assists, line break assists, tackles busts, support play, receipts (ball handling) and made fewer errors. He was more than just fine in the NRL in his first year. He was very good. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKR AWAY DAYS Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 14 hours ago, Dunbar said: Modern full backs need to be both creative and a running threat and he ticks both those boxes. Definitely England's best full back for me. He is a much smarter player now. Catalonia has done him the world of good. He seems to be much more aware of his surroundings now. Lost a yard of pace though, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, HKR AWAY DAYS said: He is a much smarter player now. Catalonia has done him the world of good. He seems to be much more aware of his surroundings now. Lost a yard of pace though, unfortunately. Unfortunately it seems all players seem to get at least 1 serious injury, usually knee if they are unlucky. The desperate desire for rule makers to make the game "break-neck" pace plays it's part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Tomkins had a rough and disjointed 2nd season in the NRL but in 2014 he was more impressive than a lot of people give him credit for. Here are highlights from that (mostly 2014) not too shabby... He may be slower than 2014 but he is also much more experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 14 minutes ago, Scubby said: Tomkins had a rough and disjointed 2nd season in the NRL but in 2014 he was more impressive than a lot of people give him credit for. Here are highlights from that (mostly 2014) not too shabby... He may be slower than 2014 but he is also much more experienced. From painful experience I’ve learned never to judge anyone on highlights clips . We’ve signed some overseas players who looked like Matt Cooper and turned up and played like Tommy Cooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire Warrior Dragon Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, DavidM said: From painful experience I’ve learned never to judge anyone on highlights clips . We’ve signed some overseas players who looked like Matt Cooper and turned up and played like Tommy Cooper The fez they were wearing was probably a clue as to how they would turn out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said: The fez they were wearing was probably a clue as to how they would turn out! Some could have worn it all game the involvement they had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 15 minutes ago, DavidM said: From painful experience I’ve learned never to judge anyone on highlights clips . We’ve signed some overseas players who looked like Matt Cooper and turned up and played like Tommy Cooper I also watched all these games mate. He had some brain farts but I imagine he wasn't signed for percentage plays. All the hype around Kalyn Ponga atm. He is doing no more than Tomkins did in 2014. He may develop into an immortal. At the moment he is just a very good NRL player with people fawning all over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 13 minutes ago, Scubby said: I also watched all these games mate. He had some brain farts but I imagine he wasn't signed for percentage plays. All the hype around Kalyn Ponga atm. He is doing no more than Tomkins did in 2014. He may develop into an immortal. At the moment he is just a very good NRL player with people fawning all over him. Fair enough . I wouldn’t put Tomkins anywhere near Ponga but they’re you go. I dare to think what he’d do if he were running round SL and playing Wakefield yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 17 hours ago, Manfred Mann said: Holmes is no longer rated as the best full back at the North Queensland Cowboys, let alone one of the best in the NRL. The current ranking would more likely be: 1. Tedesco 2. Trbojevic 3. Ponga 4. Tuivasa-Sheck. 5. Papenhuyzen 6. Gutherson 7. Mitchell 8. Dufty All of them are outstanding. Tomkins might be tied with Dufty in world rankings. Mitchell does not yet deserve even that 7th place in the list. He has been unsure under the high ball and largely absent in too many games, I'd have Dufty there way before him. One of the things you want from your full back is consistency. He's consistently inconsistent. I wouldn't yet put him in that list. The Australian Rugby League Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Just now, Graham said: I'd have Dufty there way before him. Good man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, DavidM said: Fair enough . I wouldn’t put Tomkins anywhere near Ponga but they’re you go. I dare to think what he’d do if he were running round SL and playing Wakefield yesterday I would have got some Albert Goldthorpe medal points playing against Wakefield yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 2 hours ago, DavidM said: From painful experience I’ve learned never to judge anyone on highlights clips . We’ve signed some overseas players who looked like Matt Cooper and turned up and played like Tommy Cooper When we talk about Ryan Hall at the Roosters I am told that his overall contribution doesn't mean anything because he is not making those game breaking moments or scoring tries. When we look at the Tomkins highlights reel where he is making breaks and scoring tries it suddenly turns into we can't judge people by highlights. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, Dunbar said: When we talk about Ryan Hall at the Roosters I am told that his overall contribution doesn't mean anything because he is not making those game breaking moments or scoring tries. When we look at the Tomkins highlights reel where he is making breaks and scoring tries it suddenly turns into we can't judge people by highlights. Ryan Hall wouldn’t get 3 minutes of highlights . For all the exit yards wingers are ultimately there to be the finishers and game breakers . He’s been in the prime team but has never ever delivered that , even if it’s always the fault of everyone around him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 minute ago, DavidM said: Ryan Hall wouldn’t get 3 minutes of highlights . For all the exit yards wingers are ultimately there to be the finishers and game breakers . He’s been in the prime team but has never ever delivered that , even if it’s always the fault of everyone around him Exactly the point I was making. How come we can't judge Tomkins on his highlights when we expect them from Hall? Tomkins was recruited by the Warriors in 2014 to break games open, score tries and setup tries. In 2014 he did that and his highlights show it. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 2 hours ago, DavidM said: Fair enough . I wouldn’t put Tomkins anywhere near Ponga but they’re you go. I dare to think what he’d do if he were running round SL and playing Wakefield yesterday Ponga scored 17 tries in 2018 and 2019 combined. Tomkins bagged 13 in his first season in the NRL. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Just now, Dunbar said: Ponga scored 17 tries in 2018 and 2019 combined. Tomkins bagged 13 in his first season in the NRL. I like Ponga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ask Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Don’t worry about the comparisons with others etc etc Tomkins looks back to his best or certainly close to it. Good news for England and SL in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meast Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Quality player int he? Huddersfield Giants Supporters Association Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, meast said: Quality player int he? Considering he hasn't played since March, let's see what he's like when he's fully up to speed and match-fit. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hullfan Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Jake Connor should be England and hull fc full back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.