McManus rejects proposal for 11-team Super League

[yipyee]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

Widnes have been world champions, and both them and Leigh can draw bigger crowds than London or Toulouse. They may not be glamorous locations but you’re too quick to dismiss them. 
 

Nobody but the big five (and potentially Toronto) can draw five figure crowds either. Might as well boot Cas and Catalans out of SL.

Its not just aboht drawing crowds though is it.

Its player development, additional viewers both TV and in stadiums 

Additional sponsors

Etc... 

We need more BIG clubs and less make up the number clubs

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, M j M said:

Can we all agree that whatever team gets the 12th place, the last club it will or should be is Leigh, who brought very little (nothing?) to the comp last time they were in it and whose record since on and off field does not in any way justify inclusion. But especially if you're the sort who really doesn't like clubs which live off the unreliable largesse of one owner.

Club	Home Games	Total	Average	Highest	Lowest
Castleford Tigers	11	104,776	9,525	11,500	7,094
Catalans Dragons	11	96,551	8,777	10,804	7,254
Huddersfield Giants	11	64,081	5,826	8,666	4,973
Hull	11	128,900	11,718	15,487	10,222
Leeds Rhinos	11	164,449	14,950	18,029	13,169
Leigh Centurions	11	71,732	6,521	9,012	4,938
Salford Red Devils	11	51,736	4,703	6,253	2,678
St Helens	11	118,240	10,749	13,138	9,040
Wakefield Trinity	11	58,178	5,289	7,187	4,017
Warrington Wolves	11	115,253	10,478	11,681	9,152
Widnes Vikings	11	63,437	5,767	8,279	4,253
Wigan Warriors	11	153,810	13,983	23,390	11,637

[yipyee]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

And London can?

NOT wishing to dissapoint you but Toulouse have yet to prove they can get anywhere near 5 figures, and Catalan have never recorded a 5 figure Average.

And yet Catalan had a TV contract and grew their attendance to near capacity on a weekly basis. Catalan are one of if not the most commercially succsessful club in SL.

In addition didnt Catalan get over 5 figures in every road game they have played?

London also have potential to get over 5 figures but they need to put down roots.

I am sure if they held some showcase games theg could get over 5 figures easily

[yipyee]

20 minutes ago, Gambass said:

You guys should really stop this 'french TV deal' nonsense. Under the current circonstances, it will never happen.

As a best case scenario, L'Equipe will take it where Bein left (ie producing Catalans home game and that's it). No french TV will put any extra money in the competition as the value is simply not there, and won't be there neither with an eventual addition of Toulouse.

Sports channels need subscribers and Super League don't bring them. Simple as that.

I do believe this situation can be changed and that eventually french RL can become self-sufficient..., but for that to happen, you don't need a five year plan, you need a multiple decades plan to make RL a valuable product to the eyes of enough french viewers. We are not there, not by a long shot and as it stands there is no strategy put in place for that to happen

We have already lost one decade and half since Catalans inclusion...

 

Its a good job you dont work for NFL UK team based in London with that attitude?

In just 10 years they got a tv, then a pay TV deal with an exclusive sky channel with NO uk based team!

The UK based road games are on FTA tv which is more than the RFL can do with a UK based product.

[yipyee]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

If you took away fans out Toulouse barely get over 4 figures. That might change, and hopefully it will, but for Yippee to slate Widnes for having poor crowds and then big up Toulouse in the same sentence is crazy. 
 

If Widnes had a sustained run in SL they’d get bigger crowds than Wakey, Salford or Huddersfield do. 

Toulouse would get 5 figure crowds in SL, Widnes did not...

[Harry Stottle]

19 minutes ago, Gambass said:

You guys should really stop this 'french TV deal' nonsense. Under the current circonstances, it will never happen.

As a best case scenario, L'Equipe will take it where Bein left (ie producing Catalans home game and that's it). No french TV will put any extra money in the competition as the value is simply not there, and won't be there neither with an eventual addition of Toulouse.

Sports channels need subscribers and Super League don't bring them. Simple as that.

I do believe this situation can be changed and that eventually french RL can become self-sufficient..., but for that to happen, you don't need a five year plan, you need a multiple decades plan to make RL a valuable product to the eyes of enough french viewers. We are not there, not by a long shot and as it stands there is no strategy put in place for that to happen

We have already lost one decade and half since Catalans inclusion...

 

How refreshing to hear someone actually talk some sense, it is the exact same culprits who were lauding the Toronto team being full of Canadians in 5 years with all the ready made athletes we only had to put a League ball in their hands and sit back and enjoy, and they also said just watch how SL will moan when Toronto bring in a multi million dollar TV contract and they keep it all to themselves because they would not recieve any central funding.

You have gone and done it now, what do you know anyway you only live there.

[Harry Stottle]

14 minutes ago, yipyee said:

And yet Catalan had a TV contract and grew their attendance to near capacity on a weekly basis. Catalan are one of if not the most commercially succsessful club in SL.

In addition didnt Catalan get over 5 figures in every road game they have played?

London also have potential to get over 5 figures but they need to put down roots.

I am sure if they held some showcase games theg could get over 5 figures easily

It was you who brought up 5 figs,  London and potential is the longest drawn out hopeful statement in our game. What are Showcase Games? every year in SL they have played every other club, or are you talking about games in London not involving err London?

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

So which are the expansion teams that could get in? 

Have you already discounted 'heartland' teams?

Are you sure as to what French politics as in the case of Toulouse and ground rents are?

Clubs that are in rented stadiums will not subject to ground rents will they?

Whooosh!

[Harry Stottle]

17 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Its a good job you dont work for NFL UK team based in London with that attitude?

In just 10 years they got a tv, then a pay TV deal with an exclusive sky channel with NO uk based team!

The UK based road games are on FTA tv which is more than the RFL can do with a UK based product.

What a total futile argument that is. 

Golden rule is know your market, JUST LISTEN for a moment to someone who is telling you the SP in France as he sees it.

[yipyee]

11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

What a total futile argument that is. 

Golden rule is know your market, JUST LISTEN for a moment to someone who is telling you the SP in France as he sees it.

Dont see how this is futile, the NFL get a dedicated channel for a sport with no professional teams in the UK and only play proffessionally in one country with no international games..

While the RFL beg for a handout to their poorly organised events

 

They key phrase in the above is "as he sees it" 

It's not fact just one man's opinion just like we have differing opinions.

 

Who would you suggest to be the 12th team that

Can have a FT set up with a full back office team who are also FT

has potential for 5 figure crowds

can enhance TV deals,

play in a modern stadium

can produce their own players without stepping on the toes of other academy's 

Enhance the international game

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Davo5 said:

How many years do you want,they have had quite a few already and failed.

Who?

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, yipyee said:

Its not just aboht drawing crowds though is it.

Its player development, additional viewers both TV and in stadiums 

Additional sponsors

Etc... 

We need more BIG clubs and less make up the number clubs

That’s a very sweeping statement, you make it sound so easy

[Eddie]

55 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Toulouse would get 5 figure crowds in SL, Widnes did not...

What evidence do you have for them drawing an average of 10,000 if they went up, increasing their gate by 5x. 
 

Toulouse FC averaged 14,204 last season, a well established club in Ligue 1. Toulouse rugby Union average around 16,000. I don’t know why anyone would think a team in a minority sport playing a load of teams from a different country would draw 10k in Toulouse. 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, yipyee said:

 

London also have potential to get over 5 figures but they need to put down roots.

I am sure if they held some showcase games theg could get over 5 figures easily

London get 10k crowds . Have you missed the last 25 years?

[Davo5]

30 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Who?

 

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

If you took away fans out Toulouse barely get over 4 figures. That might change, and hopefully it will, but for Yippee to slate Widnes for having poor crowds and then big up Toulouse in the same sentence is crazy. 
 

If Widnes had a sustained run in SL they’d get bigger crowds than Wakey, Salford or Huddersfield do. 

 

[Magic XIII]

55 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Club	Home Games	Total	Average	Highest	Lowest
Castleford Tigers	11	104,776	9,525	11,500	7,094
Catalans Dragons	11	96,551	8,777	10,804	7,254
Huddersfield Giants	11	64,081	5,826	8,666	4,973
Hull	11	128,900	11,718	15,487	10,222
Leeds Rhinos	11	164,449	14,950	18,029	13,169
Leigh Centurions	11	71,732	6,521	9,012	4,938
Salford Red Devils	11	51,736	4,703	6,253	2,678
St Helens	11	118,240	10,749	13,138	9,040
Wakefield Trinity	11	58,178	5,289	7,187	4,017
Warrington Wolves	11	115,253	10,478	11,681	9,152
Widnes Vikings	11	63,437	5,767	8,279	4,253
Wigan Warriors	11	153,810	13,983	23,390	11,637

Leigh average largely made up of lots of away fans travelling a handful of miles from exotic local towns like St Helens, Wigan, Warrington and little further afield like Leeds.

[Magic XIII]

39 minutes ago, Eddie said:

London get 10k crowds . Have you missed the last 25 years?

Why not drill down into the reasons that LB/HQ haven't maintained the heady crowds for the World Club Challenge, and early SL, or is that beyond you ?

[THE RED ROOSTER]

41 minutes ago, Eddie said:

London get 10k crowds . Have you missed the last 25 years?

London v Wigan Warriors on Saturday 17th August 1996 did indeed draw a crowd of 10,014. that is within the last 25 years.* There have al;so been a few 9,000 and 8,000 attendances since, I admit not recently but #justsaying.

* And as Max Boyce would have put it I should know for i was there.

 

[ojx]

He's not wrong, eleven clubs would look a little amateur. I'm surprised they are not going down to 10 clubs. Especially if it meant getting every game televised in the next broadcasting deal. SL should be looking for quality over quantity. 

[Davo5]

2 minutes ago, ojx said:

He's not wrong, eleven clubs would look a little amateur. I'm surprised they are not going down to 10 clubs. Especially if it meant getting every game gets televised in the next broadcasting deal. SL should be looking for quality over quantity. 

Yeah can't wait for those 6 Wigan/Saints derbies every season,I'm sure that will gets fans excited.

[yipyee]

59 minutes ago, Eddie said:

That’s a very sweeping statement, you make it sound so easy

It is easy with the right people and supportive structure, 

Both of these are missing in RL.

Just look at what the NFL has acheived

[ojx]

6 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Yeah can't wait for those 6 Wigan/Saints derbies every season,I'm sure that will gets fans excited.

Wouldn't be any different from now, with the current loop fixtures.

[yipyee]

58 minutes ago, Eddie said:

What evidence do you have for them drawing an average of 10,000 if they went up, increasing their gate by 5x. 
 

Toulouse FC averaged 14,204 last season, a well established club in Ligue 1. Toulouse rugby Union average around 16,000. I don’t know why anyone would think a team in a minority sport playing a load of teams from a different country would draw 10k in Toulouse. 

Well obviously there will be no evidence until it happens.

There was negative people who said Catalans 3-500 attendances couldnt be built on 

[yipyee]

3 minutes ago, ojx said:

Wouldn't be any different from now, with the current loop fixtures.

14 team SL is required end of.

No loop fixtures 

This is achievable if Toronto are saved and London and Toulouse adding new markets for player development 

[Davo5]

5 minutes ago, ojx said:

Wouldn't be any different from now, with the current loop fixtures.

The loop fixtures need binned not increased.