South Wales for Super League

[GUBRATS]

11 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Irish I don`t want to sound flippant on this topic but I saw  someone mention the aging demographic of RL fans  and it got me thinking about all those crowd scenes of middle age  and over men that you so often see in the terraces at League matches. Surely all these blokes are Grandfathers and uncles and fathers and why aren`t they bringing the next generation of supporters along, boys and girls. If I am fortunate enough to ever  have Grandkids I` d like to think that I`ll be taking them along to the things I enjoy like I did with my Grandfather. No match is ever packed out enough that surely one or two kids per adult can`t get be allowed to get in for free or at least some other promo to encourage adults to bring kids with them.

When we are young we are very impressionable and an afternoon on the terraces in a cheering and singing crowd could create that lifelong connection. Crikey , they may even sign up for a season if Grandad takes them down on registration day.

Which pictures of middle and old age men are you talking about ? , Black and white photo's from the 50/60s ? 

Go to most if not all RL matches in the UK and there are kids everywhere 

[The Rocket]

6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Which pictures of middle and old age men are you talking about ? , Black and white photo's from the 50/60s ? 

Go to most if not all RL matches in the UK and there are kids everywhere 

I`m quite happy to stand corrected, but if there are so many kids, don`t they play ? I reckon most kids that go to the League over here would play in a weekend comp.

[Harry Stottle]

48 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Irish I don`t want to sound flippant on this topic but I saw  someone mention the aging demographic of RL fans  and it got me thinking about all those crowd scenes of middle age  and over men that you so often see in the terraces at League matches. Surely all these blokes are Grandfathers and uncles and fathers and why aren`t they bringing the next generation of supporters along, boys and girls. If I am fortunate enough to ever  have Grandkids I` d like to think that I`ll be taking them along to the things I enjoy like I did with my Grandfather. No match is ever packed out enough that surely one or two kids per adult can`t get be allowed to get in for free or at least some other promo to encourage adults to bring kids with them.

When we are young we are very impressionable and an afternoon on the terraces in a cheering and singing crowd could create that lifelong connection. Crikey , they may even sign up for a season if Grandad takes them down on registration day.

With you all the way on that Rod, I have said for a long time to let the kids i.e. the next generation of paying customers in free, and if people are still watching in their retirement years they will have been going all their lives let them in free also. 

[Wigan Riversider]

On 18/08/2020 at 18:04, burnleywelsh said:

This is an extract from the programme, Chorley Magpies v South Wales, July 1996. Div 2.

It looks like the application for SL was successful. Passed by the RFL and endorsed by Maurice Lindsay.

What went wrong? Another missed opportunity??

 

Interesting read the but no recollection of it back in the day. 

Think they have Lyons' age wrong

[Rugby&soccerfan]

7 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

Don't you remember the Sh*show that was Crusaders?

I remember South Wales well.

 

Did the Celtic Crusaders not come of the back of some Welsh Union team who was merged or something?

[Ramon Rojo]

Remember a dozen of us on a big coach rumbling down to watch Hornets get stuffed by 40 odd points to Cardiff Blue Dragons. It was a John Player Trophy tie at an almost empty Ninian Park. There were only us and 3 old blokes in the bar.

Seem to recall we had 2 sent off and another couple sin binned.

It was cold, murky and uninspiring.

They shut the M6 on the way back due to 'an incident'. Rolled into Rochdale at 1.30am the next day.

To be honest, don't reckon I'd go back.

[Oldbear]

8 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

Don't you remember the Sh*show that was Crusaders?

The key point is viable. Crusaders was yet another of those scenarios where the RFL just rolled over when Mr Samuels approached them, due diligence went out of the window. The key to any expansion is that a proper, in depth analysis and due diligence process is needed, covering things like finance (with a worst case scenario), player recruitment, stadium tenure, ownership being fit and proper etc. Instead we get fag packet calculations (it’s a bit like the Monty Python Secret Service Interview sketch - can you keep a secret? Yes, well your in, now why does your name sound Russian). Too often we seem too desperate to expand so we don’t take care when assessing any applications. The result is a poor candidate gets in, then guess what happens. It’s taken years for Seattle to finally get an NHL team, the owners have had to jump through all sorts of hoops and lay down security bonds, we have to at least try to be more professional.

[burnleywelsh]

1 hour ago, Rugby&soccerfan said:

I remember South Wales well.

 

Did the Celtic Crusaders not come of the back of some Welsh Union team who was merged or something?

I think Samuels was involved with The Celtic Warriors RU team. They were cut by the WRU so Samuels turned his attention to RL.

[burnleywelsh]

9 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

Don't you remember the Sh*show that was Crusaders?

I think South Wales RLFC would have been a totally different animal to Crusaders. With Mike Nicholas and Clive Griffiths involved and the timing of the proposed entry to SL, off the back of the 1995 Welsh World Cup squad performing well. I think RL would really have taken off at the time. Welsh RU was not in a good place at the time also.

[GUBRATS]

3 hours ago, Oldbear said:

The key point is viable. Crusaders was yet another of those scenarios where the RFL just rolled over when Mr Samuels approached them, due diligence went out of the window. The key to any expansion is that a proper, in depth analysis and due diligence process is needed, covering things like finance (with a worst case scenario), player recruitment, stadium tenure, ownership being fit and proper etc. Instead we get fag packet calculations (it’s a bit like the Monty Python Secret Service Interview sketch - can you keep a secret? Yes, well your in, now why does your name sound Russian). Too often we seem too desperate to expand so we don’t take care when assessing any applications. The result is a poor candidate gets in, then guess what happens. It’s taken years for Seattle to finally get an NHL team, the owners have had to jump through all sorts of hoops and lay down security bonds, we have to at least try to be more professional.

You are guessing at this , I'll give you a rundown of the Celtic ' project ' later 

Right then , Leighton Samuel had a Union team but was knocked back for entering the top tier , so one way or another ( don't know if he approached the RFL or them him ? ) He set up a RL team , he wanted it in SL , but being a domestic ( UK ) based club they had to climb through the league's 

So they entered NL 2 which at that time had a £ 150 K salary cap , but with a full time squad , they missed out on promotion ( to Swinton I think it was ) , so they embellished their team with Josh Hannay , who had won an NRL GF 3 years earlier and recently played SOO , all not forgetting on a cap of 150 grand 

Quite amazing really when you think about it !

They did it by having 25 community development officers all paid by the RFL , who also just happened to have their Welsh offices based at Leighton Samuel's premises , how very convenient

How do I know this you ask ? , I was told it , by one of their players , who was a former captain of Leigh Centurions NL academy GF winning team ( yes we used to have an academy , and actually produced players ) 

Richard Lewis was in charge of the RFL at that time and they had just received some serious money for development from Sport England ( and possibly some for Wales as well ) 

Now , once they reached SL the players would then have stopped doing the 2 one hour school sessions they were all doing , and of course they were then recieving full SL central funding , so then Mr Samuel could hopefully have made up the financial shortfall , unfortunately his business relied heavily on Woolworths , their fall brought the Celtic project to an end 

It was a shame , genuinely a shame , they had a very good quality academy that beat plenty of top amateur teams in the heartlands ( my son broke his leg due to the boggy pitch at Brewery Field when playing there for Leigh East ) and have helped several players come through to SL 

How it was done was a little sneaky , upset a few at the time , it was only a couple of years after the introduction of the salary caps to the NL' s ( now that was a ' fag packet ' farce ) and it was plain to all that something strange was going on 

So there you go 

[GUBRATS]

5 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I`m quite happy to stand corrected, but if there are so many kids, don`t they play ? I reckon most kids that go to the League over here would play in a weekend comp.

Football 

[Oldbear]

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

You are guessing at this , I'll give you a rundown of the Celtic ' project ' later 

Would love to hear it. From my outside view it definitely looked like one of those situations where supposedly rich man approached RFL, who basically let him do what he wanted without any due diligence and checks (including a load of dodgy visas if I recall correctly), then when his money ran out (didn’t he also have business problems?) there was no infrastructure so the team was moved north to another set of sketchy businessmen.

[GUBRATS]

17 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

Would love to hear it. From my outside view it definitely looked like one of those situations where supposedly rich man approached RFL, who basically let him do what he wanted without any due diligence and checks (including a load of dodgy visas if I recall correctly), then when his money ran out (didn’t he also have business problems?) there was no infrastructure so the team was moved north to another set of sketchy businessmen.

See above 

[Chris22]

I reckon that the start of Super League was the moment for a Welsh team. The excitement of a summer league and off the back of an impressive 1995 World Cup. By the time Celtic Crusaders came up in 2009, the moment had gone and we were starting afresh.

Thinking about it, did we have a Welsh team (possibly Cardiff based) in the lower leagues at the start of the summer era?

[Oldbear]

5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

See above 

Just read it thanks. It sort of underlines my comment about the RFL often just getting taken in by supposedly rich men, who may or may not be able and willing to be in for the long term, only in this case it sounds like the RFL actively assisted this project. I still feel that the biggest problem we have with development is that we are so desperate to put pins in maps that we omit to do the due diligence that pretty much any other sport does when faced with an expansion opportunity. Expansion is not the problem, but the way it is done, and often the people we look to do it, are a big problem.

[burnleywelsh]

40 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

I reckon that the start of Super League was the moment for a Welsh team. The excitement of a summer league and off the back of an impressive 1995 World Cup. By the time Celtic Crusaders came up in 2009, the moment had gone and we were starting afresh.

Thinking about it, did we have a Welsh team (possibly Cardiff based) in the lower leagues at the start of the summer era?

See the original post.

[fighting irish]

10 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Irish I don`t want to sound flippant on this topic but I saw  someone mention the aging demographic of RL fans  and it got me thinking about all those crowd scenes of middle age  and over men that you so often see in the terraces at League matches. Surely all these blokes are Grandfathers and uncles and fathers and why aren`t they bringing the next generation of supporters along, boys and girls. If I am fortunate enough to ever  have Grandkids I` d like to think that I`ll be taking them along to the things I enjoy like I did with my Grandfather. No match is ever packed out enough that surely one or two kids per adult can`t get be allowed to get in for free or at least some other promo to encourage adults to bring kids with them.

When we are young we are very impressionable and an afternoon on the terraces in a cheering and singing crowd could create that lifelong connection. Crikey , they may even sign up for a season if Grandad takes them down on registration day.

hear hear! 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, fighting irish said:

hear hear! 

RL games are teaming with kids 

[Gooleboy]

2 hours ago, Oldbear said:

Would love to hear it. From my outside view it definitely looked like one of those situations where supposedly rich man approached RFL, who basically let him do what he wanted without any due diligence and checks (including a load of dodgy visas if I recall correctly), then when his money ran out (didn’t he also have business problems?) there was no infrastructure so the team was moved north to another set of sketchy businessmen.

Student Visas by all accounts.