Harry Stottle Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 20 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: True. GB was a farce but lets humour those who see it as a pinnacle. The thing is people such as yourself have said there is no point in having a GB team because it will only be English lads that are selected, I have argued all along that is fine untill someone come alongs who will be a good addition to our national team, then the knee jerk reactionists want to change the rules, don't you want the best these isles can offer representing us. The Ashes series is the pinnacle of our sport and tests against NZ come in second in my opinion, as I have said and I do so without fear of any constructive contradiction the WC is a manufactured contrived competition utilising 70% of the tournaments participants from one single country in whatever 'uniform' is available to them. Split the home nations for the WC competion but bring them together for the true competition as was the case in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 16 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Yes it was. England haven't played since 2018. Ironically GB showed a bit of the daftness of all that. That was a clear opportunity for the likes of Knowles to play at a higher level than Wales could offer right now. Yet because we had an AUSSIE England coach determined to use it as an England series we saw none of it. Edited above for a more accurate meaning, in that he desired to play his own country men before others he knew nothing about, Remember his comment about Tommy Makinson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: The thing is people such as yourself have said there is no point in having a GB team because it will only be English lads that are selected, I have argued all along that is fine untill someone come alongs who will be a good addition to our national team, then the knee jerk reactionists want to change the rules, don't you want the best these isles can offer representing us. The Ashes series is the pinnacle of our sport and tests against NZ come in second in my opinion, as I have said and I do so without fear of any constructive contradiction the WC is a manufactured contrived competition utilising 70% of the tournaments participants from one single country in whatever 'uniform' is available to them. Split the home nations for the WC competion but bring them together for the true competition as was the case in the past. Fantastic, but the first time GB was brought back we has a Kilted Kangaroo at FB, Ozzie Qualified English players ahead of genuine quality Welsh players, Knowles and Grace. The only reason we've ever played as GB is so that the England team could include Welsh and Scotsmen (as well as the occasional Irishman). That is literally the only reason. Knowles could get high level test matches playing for GB and Wales, but it looks like GB is dead or at best a trial series for England. So he's now changed flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Edited above for a more accurate meaning, in that he desired to play his own country men before others he knew nothing about, Remember his comment about Tommy Makinson? So now we'll get a good English coach wanting a "pure English team" with players who've played for, let me check, Wales??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 19 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Missed out the crucial "played for Wales through the junior ranks and has a Welsh mother" there. That somewhat questions your "as English as you can get" statement. There's parallels with Jack Grealish and Declan Rice here. By definition (yours) he had an English father as well. If the current rules allow him to change then there we are. I would not allow such changes, but if they were impossible to change, one wonders if he had chosen Wales in the first place. I recall Gildart deciding not to choose Italy in the hope of an England selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Tommygilf said: The only reason we've ever played as GB is so that the England team could include Welsh and Scotsmen (as well as the occasional Irishman). That is literally the only reason. History student aren't you Tommy? That is the most misinformed statement you have ever made. Yes those selected for GB played in the English League system and those guy's earned the right by performance to be selected, some even captained the teams, but it was a nominated GB team representative of these isles by the qualifaction process of the participants being from one of the 4 nations, as is the Union Lions and the British Olympics Association teams is a collective of how many sports? who wear the Lions head crest on their attire as our GB Rugby League team also do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Rupert Prince said: By definition (yours) he had an English father as well. If the current rules allow him to change then there we are. I would not allow such changes, but if they were impossible to change, one wonders if he had chosen Wales in the first place. I recall Gildart deciding not to choose Italy in the hope of an England selection. Since u16s he's not chosen to represent that English father or his English birthplace, but Wales. I agree "thems the rules". But I think this is the first case in RL of a player who's come through the junior ranks of a tier two nation age grades to senior level switching to a tier 1 nation. Its a bit of a kick in the teeth for us that want to see tier 2 nations grow like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 19 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: So now we'll get a good English coach wanting a "pure English team" with players who've played for, let me check, Wales??? He qualifies by birth right, but I am still in the same frame of mind, he made his selection process and chose Wales, he should stay with them until '23 that is the scheduled next GB tour I believe to Aus - eagerly awaiting that - then revert back to Wales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 It's not worth getting worked up about. Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 16 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Fantastic, but the first time GB was brought back we has a Kilted Kangaroo at FB, Ozzie Qualified English players ahead of genuine quality Welsh players, Knowles and Grace. The only reason we've ever played as GB is so that the England team could include Welsh and Scotsmen (as well as the occasional Irishman). That is literally the only reason. Knowles could get high level test matches playing for GB and Wales, but it looks like GB is dead or at best a trial series for England. So he's now changed flags. Not liking it is not the point. The rules, as they are, invite (or pressurise) players into choosing - and such choices are dictated (or encouraged) by players as they grow up. There is no point moaning about players realising that they have matured and circumstances have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2010 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 The only way the other home nations are going to be able to step up and consistently compete without losing players is if investment is made into junior RL in those countries with a proper pathway for then to progress into the professional game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: History student aren't you Tommy? That is the most misinformed statement you have ever made. Yes those selected for GB played in the English League system and those guy's earned the right by performance to be selected, some even captained the teams, but it was a nominated GB team representative of these isles by the qualifaction process of the participants being from one of the 4 nations, as is the Union Lions and the British Olympics Association teams is a collective of how many sports? who wear the Lions head crest on their attire as our GB Rugby League team also do. I am a student of history as we all should be. From that I know that we competed as England, until an influx of Welsh players in the interwar period caused us to change to GB intermittently and then more permanently because of even more Welsh and Scottish players. Union combines 4 regular national sides for the lions on a regular basis for a series. If you want to start a debate about GB H, start or restart a thread on it. I don't think this is the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Just now, JM2010 said: The only way the other home nations are going to be able to step up and consistently compete without losing players is if investment is made into junior RL in those countries with a proper pathway for then to progress into the professional game Indeed, I think this is the first RL case though of a tier 2 junior coming through tier 2 nations ranks and then switching. As opposed to say Ben Currie playing for senior level at Ireland aged 19 or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 17 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: He qualifies by birth right, but I am still in the same frame of mind, he made his selection process and chose Wales, he should stay with them until '23 that is the scheduled next GB tour I believe to Aus - eagerly awaiting that - then revert back to Wales. Absolutely, hopefully we get to a stage where we can have world cup cycle commitments to a nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 16 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: I am a student of history as we all should be. You got my vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevevalerugby Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said: If you did that then people like Knowles & Currie would never put their hand up for the Tier 2 nations in the first place, because players like this who are playing at top SL clubs know they stand a good chance of an England call up at some point in the future. The Tier 2 teams then miss out completely on being able to call on these players so they will never be able to compete. Then so be it at least the players playing for Wales are committed to Wales. What is the point of having players and then when it comes to the bid stage saying story I’m off. The majority of players playing for Wales know they are never going to win the World Cup but play to represent the country and I am proud of every one of those players as long as they give it their all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Plenty of opinions stated about Knowles moving from Wales to England (and I respect all of them) but from a purely playing perspective for England I think this is great news. I really rate Knowles and as I stated on the other thread I would start him for England (at 13). "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 33 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Since u16s he's not chosen to represent that English father or his English birthplace, but Wales. I agree "thems the rules". But I think this is the first case in RL of a player who's come through the junior ranks of a tier two nation age grades to senior level switching to a tier 1 nation. Its a bit of a kick in the teeth for us that want to see tier 2 nations grow like that. To further confirm, and you may well agree, I do not support the rules which allow players to change (certainly not without a qualification period). However... I don't think we should be surprised that a 15yr old choses one option and then later regrets it. I find the international rules in other sports and in other countries totally labyrinthine... And that's before we get to State of Origin. Off topic, and of necessity resulting from this health crisis, I'd like to see a Cumbria/ Lancs/ Yorks tournament next season. Let's look at the best available English players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 An English lad wants to play for England,can't really see what all the fuss is about,move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 hour ago, DavidM said: You got my vote Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said: To further confirm, and you may well agree, I do not support the rules which allow players to change (certainly not without a qualification period). However... I don't think we should be surprised that a 15yr old choses one option and then later regrets it. I find the international rules in other sports and in other countries totally labyrinthine... And that's before we get to State of Origin. Off topic, and of necessity resulting from this health crisis, I'd like to see a Cumbria/ Lancs/ Yorks tournament next season. Let's look at the best available English players. I think we agree generally on this and I bolded that point to highlight another area in which I agree. I suppose my main point with this is that from as equally as distant a position as your above point in bold, England RL should not be relying on tier 2 nations for developing youth talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 It was always going to happen eventually. England get another good player to choose from and that can only help. The home nations, England aside remain utterly pointless and just serve as a waiting room for a very select group of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said: It was always going to happen eventually. England get another good player to choose from and that can only help. The home nations, England aside remain utterly pointless and just serve as a waiting room for a very select group of players. Tell that to Reagan Grace or the players brought through by Crusaders. Perhaps we should be asking why our relationship with Wales isn't more like Australia's with New Zealand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Just now, Tommygilf said: Tell that to Reagan Grace or the players brought through by Crusaders. Perhaps we should be asking why our relationship with Wales isn't more like Australia's with New Zealand. A handful of genuine Welsh players who play Tier One nations once every four years in a World Cup and nothing more, but only after one of their most talented players has been nagger by England, otherwise they’re left to their own devices to play in a ‘European Cup’ at police clubs in Glasgow, amateur Rugby Union grounds or on rock hard pitches on the continent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said: A handful of genuine Welsh players who play Tier One nations once every four years in a World Cup and nothing more, but only after one of their most talented players has been nagger by England, otherwise they’re left to their own devices to play in a ‘European Cup’ at police clubs in Glasgow, amateur Rugby Union grounds or on rock hard pitches on the continent. Least we (England) could do is play them once a year then isn't it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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