Jump to content

Knowles opts for England


Recommended Posts


  • Replies 136
  • Created
  • Last Reply
4 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

If you did that then people like Knowles & Currie would never put their hand up for the Tier 2 nations in the first place, because players like this who are playing at top SL clubs know they stand a good chance of an England call up at some point in the future. The Tier 2 teams then miss out completely on being able to call on these players so they will never be able to compete.

If they're faced with a choice of either playing for one of those countries or not playing at all in a World Cup year, those countries just might have have a chance of getting them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think we agree generally on this and I bolded that point to highlight another area in which I agree. 

I suppose my main point with this is that from as equally as distant a position as your above point in bold, England RL should not be relying on tier 2 nations for developing youth talent.

I thought his community club in Barrow & his pro club St Helens developed him

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Big Picture said:

If they're faced with a choice of either playing for one of those countries or not playing at all in a World Cup year, those countries just might have have a chance of getting them.

I think it would go the other way tbh. Why on earth would a talent like Ben Currie who was always likely to gain England caps go for his 2nd choice nation of Ireland who rarely play, and when they do it is no better organised than park football?

Ultimately this is the downside to the eligibility rules, but the alternative is that the overall standard of these nations is kept at a lower level. Now you could argue that is their more natural level, which I'd agree with, but you are trading off having continuity and commitment versus squad talent. 

I think if some of these nations were offered players like Knowles, Currie and even that Welsh lad Tyson Frizzell even for a limited period of time, they would take it, and I suppose that is why we are where we are. We could argue that Wales have lost out, but the counter is that they benefited from Frizzell and Knowles in the first place because of these rules.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think it would go the other way tbh. Why on earth would a talent like Ben Currie who was always likely to gain England caps go for his 2nd choice nation of Ireland who rarely play, and when they do it is no better organised than park football?

Ultimately this is the downside to the eligibility rules, but the alternative is that the overall standard of these nations is kept at a lower level. Now you could argue that is their more natural level, which I'd agree with, but you are trading off having continuity and commitment versus squad talent. 

I think if some of these nations were offered players like Knowles, Currie and even that Welsh lad Tyson Frizzell even for a limited period of time, they would take it, and I suppose that is why we are where we are. We could argue that Wales have lost out, but the counter is that they benefited from Frizzell and Knowles in the first place because of these rules.

Just how did they benefit though?  Maybe their results were a tad better, but what other benefits did they get from having such players with them temporarily?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Just how did they benefit though?  Maybe their results were a tad better, but what other benefits did they get from having such players with them temporarily?

The performances. In much the same way Saints had Barba for only a short period, they still benefited there and then. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Just how did they benefit though?  Maybe their results were a tad better, but what other benefits did they get from having such players with them temporarily?

Having better results is a pretty significant benefit!

Reverse the question - What benefit would Wales have if the they had never played? Some part time, league 1 players would of got a call up instead. That's great for them but doesn't do anything for Welsh rugby league as a whole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Missed out the crucial "played for Wales through the junior ranks and has a Welsh mother" there. That somewhat questions your "as English as you can get" statement.

There's parallels with Jack Grealish and Declan Rice here. 

What Welsh team did he play for? Morgan came through Barrow Island juniors before he went on to St Helens. Barrow Island, as the name suggests is in Barrow. I know this because I played against him when I was in primary school.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RSN said:

What Welsh team did he play for? Morgan came through Barrow Island juniors before he went on to St Helens. Barrow Island, as the name suggests is in Barrow. I know this because I played against him when I was in primary school.

Wales u16s,17s,18s, I think he played in the 9s and the senior mens side. Think Jack Grealish and Declan Rice in football.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Yeah I’m sure those handful of games made all the difference.

Took the place of a person who could have benefited from it and not defected to England.

Again, see Grealish and Rice in football and why they're less popular than the Queen to some Irish people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Took the place of a person who could have benefited from it and not defected to England.

Again, see Grealish and Rice in football and why they're less popular than the Queen to some Irish people.

So again,not developed by Wales for England 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This situation isn't rare in international sport. It's rare in Rugby League because of our relatively small international footprint. As this shows, it just creates animosity and the "been kicked in the teeth feeling" that we really don't need in RL. It's disappointing.

https://thefootballfaithful.com/declan-rice-ireland-fiasco-west-ham/

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

The thing is people such as yourself have said there is no point in having a GB team because it will only be English lads that are selected, I have argued all along that is fine

I think it's fine if you're playing as GB all the time. It then follows that you select the best team and squad that you can from anywhere in Great Britain (I personally don't want to include Ireland). If all the players happen to come from England at one time or other, so be it. Hopefully that wouldn't always be the case, and there would at least be one or two players from the other countries.

What is not fine in my opinion is to only play as GB once in a while, and to try and make GB RL the equivalent of the rugby union Lions. That is a nonsense when it's well known that there aren't many (any) players from Wales, Scotland and Ireland who are good enough to warrant selection. It ends up being a farce whereby the England team put on a different shirt for one year.

But that's for another thread, and it's probably been done to death anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

A handful of genuine Welsh players who play Tier One nations once every four years in a World Cup and nothing more, but only after one of their most talented players has been nagger by England, otherwise they’re left to their own devices to play in a ‘European Cup’ at police clubs in Glasgow, amateur Rugby Union grounds or on rock hard pitches on the continent. 

Unfortunately unlike Australia we have to split up our home nations. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I think it's fine if you're playing as GB all the time. It then follows that you select the best team and squad that you can from anywhere in Great Britain (I personally don't want to include Ireland). If all the players happen to come from England at one time or other, so be it. Hopefully that wouldn't always be the case, and there would at least be one or two players from the other countries.

What is not fine in my opinion is to only play as GB once in a while, and to try and make GB RL the equivalent of the rugby union Lions. That is a nonsense when it's well known that there aren't many (any) players from Wales, Scotland and Ireland who are good enough to warrant selection. It ends up being a farce whereby the England team put on a different shirt for one year.

But that's for another thread, and it's probably been done to death anyway.

Before the advent of overt professionalism in RU there was a steady stream of genuine Welsh qualified players who would go North and could be available for the Welsh RL team.  But now there are very very few.  

The issue is one where effectively teams are concocted (Lebanon?)to make up numbers to produce the WC competition which hides the truth that only 3 teams are really in the running. The Pacific Islanders are developing, principally because players can play in the NRL, but eligibility here is confused as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Before the advent of overt professionalism in RU there was a steady stream of genuine Welsh qualified players who would go North and could be available for the Welsh RL team.  But now there are very very few.

Yes, I remember Wales at the RLWC in 1995. That's when they seemed to be at their peak.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

So which international side developed him up to this point?

Think you're clutching at straws here. If Morgan didn't play for Wales at junior level he more than likely still becomes at top grade SL player. If Morgan didn't play for St Helens as a junior he would likely still be playing amateur level/semi pro for Barrow. 

Wales had nothing to do with how good he is now. The credit goes to Barrow Island for getting him interested in playing the sport and St Helens for turning him into a professional athlete..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me the question isnt that should he switch to England.

The question is should he have played for Wales in the first place!

He clearly states hes an Englishman so what is in place to ensure that only commited Welshmen represent Wales?

Also people are saying he shouldnt be allowed to switch but then thats for the rule makers to change the rules as currently hes done nothing wrong as the rules encourage developing players to play for a tier 2 team until they get selected for a tier 1 team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.