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Bedfordshire Bronco

Tonga - union or league?

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12 hours ago, Copa said:

It does stop at some point though. I was born with an Italian surname that arrived in Australia in 1895. The “Italian” side of the family now has no cultural resemblance to anything Italian and has been that way for a couple of generations. I have an old photo of me as a child with my (very Italian looking in appearance and dress) great grandparents in front of their huge vegetable garden. After their generation everyone just blended in with the wider community. 

Your experience may be with the post war Greeks and Italians who had the benefits of international phone calls, some local community language media and other cultural groups. Over time though, their families will also just blend in with the identity of the broader community.

The more recent communities arriving will have a different experience again because modern technologies and cheap flights allows for the development and sustainability of trans national cultural groups. I suspect their descendants may be able to hold onto multiple cultural identities (Australia plus “the mother country”) for longer than previous groups.

I think there also seems much more of a push by communities to halt the total integration into the local ways, and to remember their ways, languages, writing, history etc. This is a move on from hen people first went to other countries as the onus was then on integrating and fitting in, especially with the younger ones.  This fits in with what you were saying about the ease of which information can now be gathered and access back to their home lands. 

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4 minutes ago, dkw said:

I think there also seems much more of a push by communities to halt the total integration into the local ways, and to remember their ways, languages, writing, history etc. This is a move on from hen people first went to other countries as the onus was then on integrating and fitting in, especially with the younger ones.  This fits in with what you were saying about the ease of which information can now be gathered and access back to their home lands. 

The Americans recognized this long ago, being a country that has accepted large numbers of immigrants over a long time, and while recognizing that a lot of their immigrant communities like to maintain some of their heritage, the Americans have used their national flag as a unifying point for their country.

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On 27/08/2020 at 00:58, unapologetic pedant said:

The testimonies of the Friend/Bell family and others in the Auckland RL 100 years documentary make clear that League was actively excluded from schools. This did not happen to cricket, soccer, rowing, hockey. Are you saying that RU interests played no part in this, or that it hasn`t made intractable the task of getting League set up in schools?

You said on the NZ thread in relation to Richmond that League would not be so well-established at St. Pauls without "the incredible work from parents and especially the Richmond club". In response I said the club had needed to "work against the grain". That`s confirming your post, not misunderstanding it.

It does not require "incredible work..." from RU clubs for their game to be played or continue to be played in NZ schools. It happens by default.

I follow this from the other side of the world, so of course you have more direct knowledge. However, I don`t think we should be too critical of other Auckland clubs` failure to emulate the Richmond example. Many struggle to attract the resources and volunteers to run their junior teams. It`s not surprising that their people don`t have the time or ability to devote to an unpaid role, battling to have League embedded into the sports programmes of their local schools.

How could you exclude or remove sports (cricket, soccer, hockey, rowing, athletic's, union) that have been well established at some NZ schools well before rugby league was even introduced into the country? My personal opinion would suggest that Auckland, Wellington and Canterbury rugby league in the early years found themselves to a similar situation to what we have now in regards to "RU interests'. We want to be able to grow rugby league and by doing so we look at participating in regional games, inter-continent games and eventually the Commonwealth & Olympic games. With union now looking to be one of the core sports in the Olympics. Its going to be an uphill battle for rugby league to be selected as union is already there. I would think rugby league would eventually make it to those major events but it won't be in my lifetime. 

The Richmond connection with St Pauls College wasn't an official link but merely done by ex St Pauls students at the club who offer to coach when their sons were at school. Even though I mention Richmond RL the partnership didn't go down well with other members of the clubs. Richmond RL use to have one of the biggest junior numbers in Auckland RL back in the 80's, 90's. Now that number has dwindle massively and some members blame school rugby league. This blame game is the reason why local RL clubs wash their hands off helping school league, as many of their players now prefer playing league on Wednesday's and union on Saturday's for their schools.

 

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Its more nuance than that among tongans in tonga and new zealand its rugby union. Among tongans in australia its rugby league. So its 2-1 to rugby union therefore rugby union is still tongas national sport.

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18 minutes ago, Themusician_2 said:

Its more nuance than that among tongans in tonga and new zealand its rugby union. Among tongans in australia its rugby league. So its 2-1 to rugby union therefore rugby union is still tongas national sport.

No reason both codes can't be equally as popular among the PI nations. From following various fan PI fan pages on social media, you would think sevens is king as it gets constant attention in the PIs.

Edited by Keith989

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58 minutes ago, Themusician_2 said:

Its more nuance than that among tongans in tonga and new zealand its rugby union. Among tongans in australia its rugby league. So its 2-1 to rugby union therefore rugby union is still tongas national sport.

You forgot about Jonah from Tonga so that 2-2 😉

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