paulwalker71 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 ... despite the £16m loan https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/53953649 Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, paulwalker71 said: ... despite the £16m loan https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/53953649 Thoughts? He’s not wrong. If we return with all the clubs we had in March this year then we will have had a fair bit of luck. £16m is peanuts in the scheme of things and is, also, a loan. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 We’re not very good at most things, including pragmatic thinking. That said, he’s right in regards to our clubs being in danger. The important thing is getting as many of those thirty six lining up for their first game next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelic Cynic Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 I don't know where the quotes are taken from,or by whom he was interviewed etc but clubs to 'reshape' could mean different things to different people. I hope clubs in the 2021 fixtures can fulfill the commitment... https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/aug/28/rfl-rugby-league-125th-anniversary No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippet13 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said: We’re not very good at most things, including pragmatic thinking. That said, he’s right in regards to our clubs being in danger. The important thing is getting as many of those thirty six lining up for their first game next year. Go on then, I'll say it, 38. Quite suprised you didn't go for 34 tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 He could have been blindly optimistic and said that we will come out of this bolder and stronger than before. Nobody on here would have a word of criticism for him had he done so, would they? RL has always been a pragmatic sport and I see nothing wrong with that. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilCarrington Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 11 hours ago, gingerjon said: He’s not wrong. If we return with all the clubs we had in March this year then we will have had a fair bit of luck. £16m is peanuts in the scheme of things and is, also, a loan. Unforrtunately quite a few UK clubs are making new signings as if they had lots of funds to spend, which suggests that some may have problems when the RFL loans and bounce-back loans direct from UKGov need to be paid back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred Mann Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 We need to retain Wigan, St Helens, Warrington, Leeds, Hull FC, Castleford, Catalans and Toronto at a minimum to have a credible competition. Add soon after. if possible, Toulouse, London, Bradford, Ottawa, New York, and Hull KR and the game will be reborn stronger as a somewhat international transatlantic competition. Then the formula will be to ensure sufficient long term success in terms of fans and sponsorship for all those 14 clubs to prosper. Their success will attract more interest in forming more clubs in north America and France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulwalker71 Posted August 29, 2020 Author Share Posted August 29, 2020 One assumes that Ralph has some considerable insights into the current state of club finances - not least because, as I seem to recall, talk that any application for part of loan would involve financial scrutiny So when he says this Quote "There's a lot of pressure on clubs and some may not be able to rise to it. We are here to ensure the majority get through." ... then I wonder what he is meaning? What would 'success' look like here? A 'majority' would be something like 20 clubs. Are we really looking at 15-ish clubs potentially ceasing to exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said: We need to retain Wigan, St Helens, Warrington, Leeds, Hull FC, Castleford, Catalans and Toronto at a minimum. Add. if possible, Toulouse, London, Bradford, Ottawa, New York, and Hull KR and the game will be reborn stronger. It’ll be weaker for the loss of any club , as will the communities they’re in Manfred . RL is a lot more than those elite and high profile clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 21 minutes ago, PhilCarrington said: Unforrtunately quite a few UK clubs are making new signings as if they had lots of funds to spend, which suggests that some may have problems when the RFL loans and bounce-back loans direct from UKGov need to be paid back. I assume they know more about their finances than you do tbf, and won’t be making any reckless signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 I’ve got nothing against Ralph Rimmer as a person but he rarely says anything positive or inspiring, and these comments are probably of the same ilk. There’s no reason at this point to think any clubs will fold, let alone lots of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiganermike Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 1 minute ago, paulwalker71 said: One assumes that Ralph has some considerable insights into the current state of club finances - not least because, as I seem to recall, talk that any application for part of loan would involve financial scrutiny So when he says this ... then I wonder what he is meaning? What would 'success' look like here? A 'majority' would be something like 20 clubs. Are we really looking at 15-ish clubs potentially ceasing to exist? If we were looking at figures similar to those then it may be that the 15 clubs do continue to exist but not in their current guise, perhaps as community clubs or as feeder clubs for some of the other 20. Some fans of those clubs if the latter were to happen may choose to walk away and that is their prerogative. It may be the natural pessimism (or realism/cynicism learned through experience depending on your outlook) that comes with being a fan of RL but to me it does seem that the quotes from Rimmer are the early stages of introducing some bad news. Whether that is a restructure that cuts adrift some clubs or the imminent news of a club or clubs folding through their own choice I'm not sure but I do think this is the early stages leading up to such announcements being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 10 hours ago, Whippet13 said: Go on then, I'll say it, 38. Quite suprised you didn't go for 34 tbh. I was on about the thirty six clubs we have right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred Mann Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 38 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said: We need to retain Wigan, St Helens, Warrington, Leeds, Hull FC, Castleford, Catalans and Toronto at a minimum to have a credible competition. Add soon after. if possible, Toulouse, London, Bradford, Ottawa, New York, and Hull KR and the game will be reborn stronger as a somewhat international transatlantic competition. Then the formula will be to ensure sufficient long term success in terms of fans and sponsorship for all those 14 clubs to prosper. Their success will attract more interest in forming more clubs in north America and France. After that rebirth is successful for a few years, the magic formula will be to look towards adding over time Boston, Philadelphia, and Chicago, thereby creating a 6 team north American conference with its own TV contract money, and Paris, Avignon and perhaps Lyon,.to make a 4-5 team French conference with its own TV money. If that was to happen we will have a huge 20 team northern hemisphere competition with good financial backing because it will be seriously international. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrumonside ref Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said: After that rebirth is successful for a few years, the magic formula will be to look towards adding over time Boston, Philadelphia, and Chicago, thereby creating a 6 team north American conference with its own TV contract money, and Paris, Avignon and perhaps Lyon,.to make a 4-5 team French conference with its own TV money. If that was to happen we will have a huge 20 team northern hemisphere competition with good financial backing because it will be seriously international. It’s a nice thought, but I think this thread is more to do with survival of our current and historic clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manfred Mann Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 16 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said: It’s a nice thought, but I think this thread is more to do with survival of our current and historic clubs. Yes, but the survival of current and historical clubs won't happen. I chose Bradford because of its large fan base. Salford and Wakefield don't have that. They won't survive much longer. I don't know if Ken Davy wants or is able to keep Huddersfield going, given its modest fan base. Most of the historical clubs don't have the financial backing to survive. We are going to be in an economic recession for several years. Moreso if the dangerously incompetent Trump is re-elected and continues to wreck the US economy. Hull KR will possibly go under now that Hudgell is getting out in December. Unless someone can be found to take over the funding the club is finished. Only new clubs with very rich owners or corporate sponsors can survive, and that will still be true even after Covid 19 recedes because of the financial cutbacks of government and television.. The old competition of overwhelmingly small northern England clubs is no longer financially viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrumonside ref Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Manfred Mann said: Yes, but the survival of current and historical clubs won't happen. I chose Bradford because of its large fan base. Salford and Wakefield don't have that. Most of the historical clubs don't have the financial backing to survive. We are going to be in an economic recession for several years. Moreso if the dangerously incompetent Trump is re-elected and continues to wreck the US economy. Hull KR will possibly go under now that Hudgell is getting out in December. Unless someone can be found to take over the funding the club is finished. Only new clubs with very rich owners or corporate sponsors can survive, and that will still be true even after Covid 19 recedes because of the financial cutbacks of government and television.. The old competition of overwhelmingly small northern England clubs is no longer financially viable. I agree with your diagnosis but the not the remedy, not at this time anyway. We have to focus on saving as many clubs as possible in areas where rugby league is played and understood in the U.K. Where there is an existing culture of it and where we can produce players and fans. Even if that means downgrading temporarily the status of some competitions if we need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 29 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said: Yes, but the survival of current and historical clubs won't happen. I chose Bradford because of its large fan base. Salford and Wakefield don't have that. They won't survive much longer. I don't know if Ken Davy wants or is able to keep Huddersfield going, given its modest fan base. Most of the historical clubs don't have the financial backing to survive. We are going to be in an economic recession for several years. Moreso if the dangerously incompetent Trump is re-elected and continues to wreck the US economy. Hull KR will possibly go under now that Hudgell is getting out in December. Unless someone can be found to take over the funding the club is finished. Only new clubs with very rich owners or corporate sponsors can survive, and that will still be true even after Covid 19 recedes because of the financial cutbacks of government and television.. The old competition of overwhelmingly small northern England clubs is no longer financially viable. I bet you’re good fun on a night out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 Losing clubs, doesn't necessarily mean they disappear, it could be that they can no longer function as "professional" clubs. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 I can't believe what Ralph's saying. Craiq reckons Championship clubs have never been so well off. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 2 hours ago, wiganermike said: If we were looking at figures similar to those then it may be that the 15 clubs do continue to exist but not in their current guise, perhaps as community clubs or as feeder clubs for some of the other 20. Some fans of those clubs if the latter were to happen may choose to walk away and that is their prerogative. It may be the natural pessimism (or realism/cynicism learned through experience depending on your outlook) that comes with being a fan of RL but to me it does seem that the quotes from Rimmer are the early stages of introducing some bad news. Whether that is a restructure that cuts adrift some clubs or the imminent news of a club or clubs folding through their own choice I'm not sure but I do think this is the early stages leading up to such announcements being made. No smoke without fire as they say Mike, yep it looks like an opening introduction of more to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 22 minutes ago, Griff said: I can't believe what Ralph's saying. Craiq reckons Championship clubs have never been so well off. He's correct about one club in particular Griff, Leigh are doing quite well financially, the thread is still open on here re Derek Beaumont on the BBC, have a listen at the noted time if you haven't already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulwalker71 Posted August 29, 2020 Author Share Posted August 29, 2020 2 hours ago, wiganermike said: If we were looking at figures similar to those then it may be that the 15 clubs do continue to exist but not in their current guise, perhaps as community clubs or as feeder clubs for some of the other 20. Perhaps. I wonder if we can suggest which clubs might fall into which category? I have a feeling, not really based on inside knowledge, that some smaller clubs will come out of this quite well. For example, North Wales is largely run by volunteers, almost no staff, and the ground is rented. One assumes that the central funding will have carried them through. It's the larger clubs, in SL or with ambitions to get there, that have more overheads, more staff, more outgoings... Could it be that it is larger / ambitious clubs that might be in trouble, rather than clubs that **some** may wish to jettison? In other words, if a bunch of the 'wrong' clubs (for want of a better term) end up going bust, we could end up with a very strange looking competition indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Chopra Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Padge said: Losing clubs, doesn't necessarily mean they disappear, it could be that they can no longer function as "professional" clubs. Yes. Or even, given there are already different levels of professionalism within the league structure, clubs moving to a different pro model. As ever, it will largely come down to two things: the size of the next TV contract, and the number of people coming though the turnstiles in the future. If both are lower over the longer term, we'll see more clubs outside Superleague operating like League 1 clubs, but that's not the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.