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The Future is League

The story of the great split. A great article

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1 hour ago, The Future is League said:

Happy 125th birthday, Rugby League. 🙂 

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"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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Peddling the myth that it was all about money,

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Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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1 hour ago, Padge said:

Peddling the myth that it was all about money,

That's the part that still resonates with working people, and is well known. The stuff about class oppression, sporting competition, the North/South divide etc. is much more complex and nuanced, and doesn't make such a good story for mass consumption.

Still a good article, though, and a nice bit from JP. Well done Daily Mirror. Bet there aren't many other nationals carrying that article today.

 


And when they found our shadows

Grouped around the TV sets

They ran down every lead

They repeated every test

They checked out all the data on their lists

And then the alien anthropologists

Admitted they were still perplexed

But on eliminating every other reason

For our sad demise

They logged the only explanation left

This species has amused itself to death

No tears to cry no feelings left

This species has amused itself to death

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5 minutes ago, Stan Doffarf said:

That's the part that still resonates with working people, and is well known. The stuff about class oppression, sporting competition, the North/South divide etc. is much more complex and nuanced, and doesn't make such a good story for mass consumption.

Still a good article, though, and a nice bit from JP. Well done Daily Mirror. Bet there aren't many other nationals carrying that article today.

 

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story eh!

What they are peddling is the RFU's version of events.

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Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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1 minute ago, Padge said:

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story eh!

What they are peddling is the RFU's version of events.

They're not peddling it, it's been out there for over a century. The only people who know the full story are those RL enthusiasts who've been interested enough to read around the subject. People like you and I.

However oversimplified this version is, it's what nearly everybody believes, and in that I include the vast majority of RL supporters. I'm just pleased that the Mirror has chosen to celebrate the anniversary of the game's birth with a decent, prominent article. I think it's a bit harsh to criticise them for not doing a full Tony Collins on the story.


And when they found our shadows

Grouped around the TV sets

They ran down every lead

They repeated every test

They checked out all the data on their lists

And then the alien anthropologists

Admitted they were still perplexed

But on eliminating every other reason

For our sad demise

They logged the only explanation left

This species has amused itself to death

No tears to cry no feelings left

This species has amused itself to death

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2 minutes ago, Neil_Ormston said:

What's your version of events Padge?

You need to get your hands on this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rugbys-Great-Split-Culture-Football/dp/0415396174

 

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And when they found our shadows

Grouped around the TV sets

They ran down every lead

They repeated every test

They checked out all the data on their lists

And then the alien anthropologists

Admitted they were still perplexed

But on eliminating every other reason

For our sad demise

They logged the only explanation left

This species has amused itself to death

No tears to cry no feelings left

This species has amused itself to death

Share this post


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Just now, Stan Doffarf said:

They're not peddling it, it's been out there for over a century. The only people who know the full story are those RL enthusiasts who've been interested enough to read around the subject. People like you and I.

However oversimplified this version is, it's what nearly everybody believes, and in that I include the vast majority of RL supporters. I'm just pleased that the Mirror has chosen to celebrate the anniversary of the game's birth with a decent, prominent article. I think it's a bit harsh to criticise them for not doing a full Tony Collins on the story.

 

I am not criticising them for publicising a significant milestone in the game. What I would like to see is when articles like this are written at least a mention of the other tensions in the rugby game that played their part.

The RFU pushed the professionalism angle to the fore, they wanted it to be about that, 125 years later they are still getting their own way with it.

 

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Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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10 minutes ago, Neil_Ormston said:

What's your version of events Padge?

I'll come back to that later as you can't do short answer, but it was about power and control and the games direction more than money.

Edited by Padge
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Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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2 minutes ago, Padge said:

 

I am not criticising them for publicising a significant milestone in the game. What I would like to see is when articles like this are written at least a mention of the other tensions in the rugby game that played their part.

The RFU pushed the professionalism angle to the fore, they wanted it to be about that, 125 years later they are still getting their own way with it.

 

You're right of course, but after all this time I don't believe there is enough interest in the true version for any newspaper to put that amount of effort into telling it. I feel interest lapsed a good deal when yawnion went 'honest' (or at least partly) in 1995.

What I would love to see is a properly researched documentary (probably Channel 4, the Beeb would never do it) telling the full detailed story. Thing is, apart from fanatics like us, would anybody watch it?


And when they found our shadows

Grouped around the TV sets

They ran down every lead

They repeated every test

They checked out all the data on their lists

And then the alien anthropologists

Admitted they were still perplexed

But on eliminating every other reason

For our sad demise

They logged the only explanation left

This species has amused itself to death

No tears to cry no feelings left

This species has amused itself to death

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16 minutes ago, Neil_Ormston said:

What's your version of events Padge?

If you really want to be outraged about the relationship between the codes, see if you can get hold of this brilliant book:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6957652-the-forbidden-game


And when they found our shadows

Grouped around the TV sets

They ran down every lead

They repeated every test

They checked out all the data on their lists

And then the alien anthropologists

Admitted they were still perplexed

But on eliminating every other reason

For our sad demise

They logged the only explanation left

This species has amused itself to death

No tears to cry no feelings left

This species has amused itself to death

Share this post


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3 minutes ago, Stan Doffarf said:

If you really want to be outraged about the relationship between the codes, see if you can get hold of this brilliant book:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6957652-the-forbidden-game

Got it, read it.

I assume your answer was aimed at Neil not me.


Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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Just now, Padge said:

Got it, read it.

I assume your answer was aimed at Neil not me.

Yes of course, I think I cocked up the quote function. My bad. Can you still get Rylance's book? I heard it was out of print.


And when they found our shadows

Grouped around the TV sets

They ran down every lead

They repeated every test

They checked out all the data on their lists

And then the alien anthropologists

Admitted they were still perplexed

But on eliminating every other reason

For our sad demise

They logged the only explanation left

This species has amused itself to death

No tears to cry no feelings left

This species has amused itself to death

Share this post


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4 minutes ago, Stan Doffarf said:

Yes of course, I think I cocked up the quote function. My bad. Can you still get Rylance's book? I heard it was out of print.

It is available as a Kindle book.

 

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Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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1 hour ago, Stan Doffarf said:

Yes, I’m very familiar with it, an excellent read.  Not everyone agrees with it though.


For more information on the Rugby League Record Keepers' Club please visit our official website at www.rugbyleaguerecords.com

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1 hour ago, Padge said:

I'll come back to that later as you can't do short answer, but it was about power and control and the games direction more than money.

I’ll look forward to your detailed reply Padge.

I’m also interested in your conclusion that this is the RFU version of events.  Is this not a gross over-simplification of the same kind you’re accusing this article of?


For more information on the Rugby League Record Keepers' Club please visit our official website at www.rugbyleaguerecords.com

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Couple of really good podcasts/interviews with Tony collins on the subject on his Soundcloud channel Rugby reloaded. always worth a listen.

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Newham Dockers - Champions 2013. Rugby League For East London. 100% Cockney Rugby League!

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Such a refreshing change that JJB recognises the danger of Mirror readers possessing misconceptions about RL. There can never be too many mentions of "whippets and flat caps". It is vital to underline whenever possible that RL is not all about "whippets and flat caps". The "whippets and flat caps" myth must be nailed once and for all.

I`ve heard that RL has sometimes been played outside the North of England. Even in other countries like Australia.

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7 hours ago, Padge said:

Peddling the myth that it was all about money,

It was about class and control IMO.  My theory is that the RFU had seen what had happened to soccer and were determined it would not happen to "their" game.  Let's not forget that not that long before the NU split, the FA cup was regularly won by amateur sides such as  the likes of Corinthian Casuals and The Wanderers. But suddenly with the advent of professionalism and the Football League it was Blackburn Rovers, Aston Villa etc who were challenging for honours.  The same thing was happening in Rugby and the "powers that be" were determined to stop it.  I believe the NU wanted to emulate the Football League and administer professional rugby for any club that wanted to join them.  The RFU were determined that by fair means or foul they would prevent this from happening.

If you examine the history from 1895 to 1995 it was not professionalism they were against. It was Rugby League.  They turned blind eye to all but open professional rugby in South Wales, because they knew that had they not done the outcome would have meant another split.  Over the years  pro soccer players and cricketers were allowed to play Rugby Union.  Welsh fullback Paul Thorburn was even allowed back after a spell in gridiron. And what's gridiron if it isn't in the terms of the RFU law "a professional form of Rugby?"

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“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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41 minutes ago, Trojan said:

It was about class and control IMO.  My theory is that the RFU had seen what had happened to soccer and were determined it would not happen to "their" game.  Let's not forget that not that long before the NU split, the FA cup was regularly won by amateur sides such as  the likes of Corinthian Casuals and The Wanderers. But suddenly with the advent of professionalism and the Football League it was Blackburn Rovers, Aston Villa etc who were challenging for honours.  The same thing was happening in Rugby and the "powers that be" were determined to stop it.  I believe the NU wanted to emulate the Football League and administer professional rugby for any club that wanted to join them.  The RFU were determined that by fair means or foul they would prevent this from happening.

If you examine the history from 1895 to 1995 it was not professionalism they were against. It was Rugby League.  They turned blind eye to all but open professional rugby in South Wales, because they knew that had they not done the outcome would have meant another split.  Over the years  pro soccer players and cricketers were allowed to play Rugby Union.  Welsh fullback Paul Thorburn was even allowed back after a spell in gridiron. And what's gridiron if it isn't in the terms of the RFU law "a professional form of Rugby?"

So if they ignored professionalism in South Wales then it wasn't really a class thing. 

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4 hours ago, Themusician_2 said:

So if they ignored professionalism in South Wales then it wasn't really a class thing. 

What else was it?  As far as South Wales was concerned they had no direct control anyway, and the cross border games were very lucrative fixtures for the English Union clubs in the South West]. As Tony Collins said in "Code Breakers" the Welsh pretended not to be paying their players and the RFO pretended to believe them.  Leave the lucrative fixtures out of the equatioin and the RFU had no hesitation is ostracising the French for alleged professionalism.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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12 hours ago, Stan Doffarf said:

Yes of course, I think I cocked up the quote function. My bad. Can you still get Rylance's book? I heard it was out of print.

The Forbidden Game by Mike Rylance is still in print and available from our good selves via the link below. 

https://shop.totalrl.com/product/the-forbidden-game-the-untold-story-of-french-rugby-league/

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