State of Origin may permanently move to end of season

[Sports Prophet]

3 hours ago, Dunbar said:

If this is true, why are people speaking out in an attempt to get some of the star NRL players eligible for Origin?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nine.com.au/article/96573151-ae2a-4543-8657-579f70068f05

A quote from the article:

Taumalolo, the 2016 Dally M Medallist, satisfies a raft of other Origin criteria. He played junior and school football in Queensland, and represented Queensland under-18s and Australian schoolboys.

Significant hurdles remain yet Johns, arguably NSW's greatest Origin player, believes that it's time for change.

"I think that's a great idea that they scrap that [rule], so we get the very best of the best, [including] Taumalolo," Johns said on Freddy and the Eighth.

If not seeing the likes of Taumalolo in Origin doesn't devalue it, why are such respected commentators so desperate to see them in?

I think you need to re-evaluate what constitutes “such respected commentators”, because Andrew Johns certainly is not one.

Regardless, nothing in the article above constitutes Origin to be a devalued product because it’s missing Taumalolo. Borderline loopy to suggest it is.

Don’t be misguided by a Johns click bait comment for what the overwhelming Australian RL supporter thinks and wants. I thought you were smarter than that Dunbar.

[Dunbar]

14 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I think you need to re-evaluate what constitutes “such respected commentators”, because Andrew Johns certainly is not one.

Regardless, nothing in the article above constitutes Origin to be a devalued product because it’s missing Taumalolo. Borderline loopy to suggest it is.

Don’t be misguided by a Johns click bait comment for what the overwhelming Australian RL supporter thinks and wants. I thought you were smarter than that Dunbar.

Look, the bottom line is that throughout the 80's and 90's and a lot of the 00's the vast majority of the elite players in the Australian comp were eligible for Australia. 

As such, State of Origin was an intense state rivalry, an unofficial test trial and a showcase of the elite players in the Australian game in competition. 

Today, with many of the elite players in the NRL being representatives of other nations (and that metric only likely to increase as players with Polynesian backgrounds become more prevalent) it will naturally have an impact on SOO.

Now, I am not saying the State rivalry or the intensity of the competition will suffer but the view of SOO as the elite level of Rugby League in Australia will naturally suffer if more and more of the games top level players are ineligible or unable to take part.

You can call this click bait all you like but the NSW coach is publically seeking a dialogue on extending Origin eligibility and he has found some support in Peter V'landys as the previously posted clip showed.

There must be a reason why these people are seeking to extend or relax the eligibility criteria for Origin selection and the natural conclusion is to get more of the elite players into the SOO arena.

If the Aussie sports fans don't want the likes of Taumalolo in SOO then fair enough... but it is clear a good proportion of influential people do and there must be a reason for that.

(also, let's keep the conversation civil shall we and refrain from calling each other loopy for having a different view)

[DavidM]

Demographics have changed , times have changed . I don’t see why these players who fulfil criteria and  have come through the systems shouldn’t be eligible . They should be able to play for their country of choice as well . It will add not detract from the origin spectacle 

[Sports Prophet]

37 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Look, the bottom line is that throughout the 80's and 90's and a lot of the 00's the vast majority of the elite players in the Australian comp were eligible for Australia. 

As such, State of Origin was an intense state rivalry, an unofficial test trial and a showcase of the elite players in the Australian game in competition. 

Today, with many of the elite players in the NRL being representatives of other nations (and that metric only likely to increase as players with Polynesian backgrounds become more prevalent) it will naturally have an impact on SOO.

Now, I am not saying the State rivalry or the intensity of the competition will suffer but the view of SOO as the elite level of Rugby League in Australia will naturally suffer if more and more of the games top level players are ineligible or unable to take part.

You can call this click bait all you like but the NSW coach is publically seeking a dialogue on extending Origin eligibility and he has found some support in Peter V'landys as the previously posted clip showed.

There must be a reason why these people are seeking to extend or relax the eligibility criteria for Origin selection and the natural conclusion is to get more of the elite players into the SOO arena.

If the Aussie sports fans don't want the likes of Taumalolo in SOO then fair enough... but it is clear a good proportion of influential people do and there must be a reason for that.

(also, let's keep the conversation civil shall we and refrain from calling each other loopy for having a different view)

Don’t be so precious, this is civil. It is loopy to suggest Origin is devalued because T’lolo isn’t not eligible. It’s akin to saying a soccer World Cup is devalued because George Best isn’t playing. Loopy.

Yes, more NRL players are not eligible for SOO than 20, 30 and 40 years ago, so more and more top level players will not be eligible. Again, this does not devalue Origin.

What devalued Origin most in its history was when Carrol played and when Queenslanders played for NSW and vice versa.

 

[Dunbar]

12 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Don’t be so precious, this is civil. It is loopy to suggest Origin is devalued because T’lolo isn’t not eligible. It’s akin to saying a soccer World Cup is devalued because George Best isn’t playing. Loopy. Rules are rules, eligibility is eligibility and both are pivotal to representative RL.

Yes, more NRL players are not eligible for SOO than 20, 30 and 40 years ago, so more and more top level players will not be eligible. Again, this does not devalue Origin, which has been (mostly ) and always should be the best of NSW V the best of Qld.

OK, let me rephrase as I am not particularly precious. Try and construct a better argument than simply calling other people loopy.

I am comfortable with the idea of Origin being the best of NSW and Queensland (and it should be). And the rivalry will always be intense.

So let me ask a couple questions. 

1. Why do you think that V'landys seems supportive of extending the eligibility of Origin to include more of the games top players while supporting them representing other nations?

2. If this happens and more and more Tongan, New Zealand, Fijian and Samoa test players turn out in Origin, what impact will it have on the state rivalry as there is surely a risk of it feeling less and less NSW vs. Queensland. 

[The Rocket]

As an Australian who has followed SOO since day one I think the days of intense inter state rivalry are gone and it is now more a contest between two supremely talented teams.

As SOO becomes more of a travelling League road show that generates money and publicity I can understand the hierarchy`s desire to have the best available.

After they have been to NZ,  I am hoping that London is the next stop. One game NSW, one game QLD, one game take your pick.

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

I think you need to re-evaluate what constitutes “such respected commentators”, because Andrew Johns certainly is not one.

Regardless, nothing in the article above constitutes Origin to be a devalued product because it’s missing Taumalolo. Borderline loopy to suggest it is.

Don’t be misguided by a Johns click bait comment for what the overwhelming Australian RL supporter thinks and wants. I thought you were smarter than that Dunbar.

Brad Fittler in agreement with him.

[Dunbar]

"The NSW coach (Brad Fittler) has been vocal with me that we should have the best players in the State of Origin and I agree with him"

Peter V'landys, ARLC Chairman 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/au.sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/nrl-202-peter-vlandys-flags-changing-origin-selection-rule-060637797.html

[Sports Prophet]

https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/09/03/the-best-rugby-league-players-dont-have-to-play-state-of-origin/

The above link to further highlight popular support for what I am saying.

40 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

So let me ask a couple questions. 

1. Why do you think that V'landys seems supportive of extending the eligibility of Origin to include more of the games top players while supporting them representing other nations?

2. If this happens and more and more Tongan, New Zealand, Fijian and Samoa test players turn out in Origin, what impact will it have on the state rivalry as there is surely a risk of it feeling less and less NSW vs. Queensland. 

Players are already eligible to play for tier 2 and Origin, as long as their tier 1 of choice is Aus. See recently Papali, Tedesco and Frizell.

1. I can’t possibly comprehend why he or anyone would be supportive of extending eligibility. It’s loopy, the man has flies in his eyes. The cynic in me says that he is trying to hoard the best players, no matter their national allegiance for a product owned by Australia. As if the NRL wasn’t good enough at doing that already.

2. Yes that is the risk and a certainty. That’s why I don’t like it.

[eal]

So many people here would have no problem with guys representing NSW or QLD and then playing for New Zealand or England internationally? Does Herbie Farnworth qualify for Queensland? If Greg Inglis does, Farnworth must surely qualify.

[Dunbar]

9 minutes ago, eal said:

So many people here would have no problem with guys representing NSW or QLD and then playing for New Zealand or England internationally? Does Herbie Farnworth qualify for Queensland? If Greg Inglis does, Farnworth must surely qualify.

Sorry eal, can I check where 'here' is?

[eal]

38 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Sorry eal, can I check where 'here' is?

'Here' being this forum.

[Davo5]

53 minutes ago, eal said:

So many people here would have no problem with guys representing NSW or QLD and then playing for New Zealand or England internationally? Does Herbie Farnworth qualify for Queensland? If Greg Inglis does, Farnworth must surely qualify.

Ahh Greg Inglis,the best blue NSW never had and his selection hardly made Origin a laughing stock just as Ponga’s hasn’t.

[Rupert Prince]

5 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Look, the bottom line is that throughout the 80's and 90's and a lot of the 00's the vast majority of the elite players in the Australian comp were eligible for Australia. 

As such, State of Origin was an intense state rivalry, an unofficial test trial and a showcase of the elite players in the Australian game in competition. 

Today, with many of the elite players in the NRL being representatives of other nations (and that metric only likely to increase as players with Polynesian backgrounds become more prevalent) it will naturally have an impact on SOO.

Now, I am not saying the State rivalry or the intensity of the competition will suffer but the view of SOO as the elite level of Rugby League in Australia will naturally suffer if more and more of the games top level players are ineligible or unable to take part.

You can call this click bait all you like but the NSW coach is publically seeking a dialogue on extending Origin eligibility and he has found some support in Peter V'landys as the previously posted clip showed.

There must be a reason why these people are seeking to extend or relax the eligibility criteria for Origin selection and the natural conclusion is to get more of the elite players into the SOO arena.

If the Aussie sports fans don't want the likes of Taumalolo in SOO then fair enough... but it is clear a good proportion of influential people do and there must be a reason for that.

(also, let's keep the conversation civil shall we and refrain from calling each other loopy for having a different view)

I have thought for some time that SOO eligibility rules had become some sort of movable feast.  It strikes me as being anything but "origin".

All of which suggests to me that our game ought to make an effort to produce it's own origin as best it could.

[17 stone giant]

19 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

All of which suggests to me that our game ought to make an effort to produce it's own origin as best it could.

But nobody cares about Yorkshire vs Lancashire, so what do you suggest as an alternative?

[yipyee]

England need to concentrate on building the NH game and playing regular international games.

Once we have this in place it doesnt matter what the aussies do, regular internationals for other countries would see Aus and other SH teams slip down the rankings with Aus on paper only being 5th best in the world etc..

That would give them a slap in the face and would see them take the international game more seriously

[eal]

One concern among many journalists in Australia about loosening SOO eligibility is the affect it would have on the Kangaroos. Having a Tongan pack running out against a Samoan pack with some Fijians sprinkled in is not going to help Australia maintain its dominance.

[yipyee]

On 05/09/2020 at 17:44, Rupert Prince said:

I have thought for some time that SOO eligibility rules had become some sort of movable feast.  It strikes me as being anything but "origin".

All of which suggests to me that our game ought to make an effort to produce it's own origin as best it could.

NH origin,

The best players from England, Wales, France etc could assemble to represent their country of origin and could play each other every year in a round robin origin series

A trophy could be presented to the winners of the origin series and they could be crowned world champions?

[Rupert Prince]

7 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

But nobody cares about Yorkshire vs Lancashire, so what do you suggest as an alternative?

I suggest Lancashire v Yorkshire...  !!!

If needs be, providing we can arrange SOO type eligibility rules, I would support Mars v Pluto.

I would like to see ANY sort of origin type game you or anyone cares to think about.  Any.  Organise an origin game. Please. A game which gives us top players playing to demonstrate who is the best of the best.

[GUBRATS]

It is other code , but the north v south game in Wellington yesterday morning was brilliant 

[BrisbaneRhino]

V'Landys is rightly looking at Origin as the game's biggest money making machine and not some misty-eyed Artie Beetson thumping Mick Cronin sacred cow.  The eligibility rules have long had escape clauses moved to suit one or other state at different times.   The very last thing Origin is about is trial games for Australia, and COVID is giving the game a chance to have a look at Origin with no ideas out of bounds.  

V'Landys also said the other night that he wants international RL to be the pinnacle in terms of rep RL.  Again, this isn't just down to remembering black and white footage of Kangaroo tours, its a hard-headed realisation that if the sport wants to grow its revenue base it needs to expand the top-end product for TV and sponsors.

[Rupert Prince]

6 hours ago, BrisbaneRhino said:

V'Landys is rightly looking at Origin as the game's biggest money making machine and not some misty-eyed Artie Beetson thumping Mick Cronin sacred cow.  The eligibility rules have long had escape clauses moved to suit one or other state at different times.   The very last thing Origin is about is trial games for Australia, and COVID is giving the game a chance to have a look at Origin with no ideas out of bounds.  

V'Landys also said the other night that he wants international RL to be the pinnacle in terms of rep RL.  Again, this isn't just down to remembering black and white footage of Kangaroo tours, its a hard-headed realisation that if the sport wants to grow its revenue base it needs to expand the top-end product for TV and sponsors.

It's true that the game needs credible I ternationals.  But Australia is parochial.  It's a big continent, but with a wide empty desert and a big red rock in the middle.

May be politically and emotionally things might change as China gets shirty and maybe the Royal Navy calls by with a big aircraft carrier to say hello. (sadly it's not called 'Indomitable')