Forgotten teams?

[Tommygilf]

8 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

Leeds Rhinos/ Leeds St Johns, Leeds Parish Church, Hunslet, Bramley, Holbeck 

I really can't decide whether the game would be better off with an inter-city rivalry in Leeds or not. Its a shame the other clubs have fallen away or disappeared entirely.

[Robin Evans]

Just wondering if rugby would have looked any differently if Hunslet had called themselves "leeds" and the other lot were called Headingley way back when....

[del capo]

20 hours ago, M j M said:

Chorley, Nottingham and Blackpool were murdered at the end of this season by what I believe was the Hetherington Plan when the sport reverted to two equal divisions of 16 clubs.

There is very little excuse for the governing body deciding to kill off clubs and it was wrong then and remains wrong now.

They weren't murdered . They were instead entered into the Premier Division of the NCL.  Hemel was another.

They were allowed to keep their contracted players and pay them even though their opponents were not . Current speaker of the House of Commons  was Chorley's chairman. I think they may have got a subsidy from the RFL for the  'move ' but cannot be certain. And it wasn't down to Gary H but little Mo.The NCL were well compensated for the deal.

But those clubs  just couldn't hack it with the best amateurs in the land ( either on or off the park ) and they  all quickly fell by the wayside..

So they were not ' killed ' by the RFL.  Poorly run or structured clubs kill themselves.

The same mistakes continued to be made with expansion clubs after that and even today probably half of League 1 ( and certainly without  this years £75k handout ) would find themselves in serious / life threatening difficulties if they  were ever asked to join Tier 4.......

 

[Scubby]

Forgotten teams? Which teams are we talking about exactly?  

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

9 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

Didn’t they moot a merger between Bramley and Hunslet as well? 
 

I always think it’s crazy how there were once 5 clubs in Leeds 

Wakefield and Castleford are also basically suburbs of Leeds

[paulwalker71]

9 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

Leeds Rhinos/ Leeds St Johns, Leeds Parish Church, Hunslet, Bramley, Holbeck 

I'll wager that Hunslet vs Holbeck was a tasty local derby back in the day

[M j M]

10 minutes ago, del capo said:

They weren't murdered . They were instead entered into the Premier Division of the NCL.  Hemel was another.

They were allowed to keep their contracted players and pay them even though their opponents were not . Current speaker of the House of Commons  was Chorley's chairman. I think they may have got a subsidy from the RFL for the  'move ' but cannot be certain. And it wasn't down to Gary H but little Mo.The NCL were well compensated for the deal.

 

They were removed from the league, which as the fans knew at the time was a death-knell for them. Going into the NCL was not remotely acceptable or viable.

You're correct about Hetherington - since I posted that I've been wracking my brains and my books and whilst I can't get at my stash of Open Rugbys or League Expresses to check right now I think maybe the Hetherington Plan was the proposal to go to three leagues in the first place rather than this one to force three teams out. That fits more in line with Hetherington's world view of RL as this did seem a bit discordant.

[Scubby]

3 minutes ago, M j M said:

They were removed from the league, which as the fans knew at the time was a death-knell for them. Going into the NCL was not remotely acceptable or viable.

You're correct about Hetherington - since I posted that I've been wracking my brains and my books and whilst I can't get at my stash of Open Rugbys or League Expresses to check right now I think maybe the Hetherington Plan was the proposal to go to three leagues in the first place rather than this one to force three teams out. That fits more in line with Hetherington's world view of RL as this did seem a bit discordant.

He wanted and got 3 leagues (with a condensed division 2) 14-8-14. It was supposed to provide more intensity for those looking for promotion. Only problem was you had to play the same teams 4 times. Like all amazing plans it ran for about 3 years (circa 92-94) and was punted, a bit like the 3x8s jolly.

[del capo]

13 minutes ago, M j M said:

They were removed from the league, which as the fans knew at the time was a death-knell for them. Going into the NCL was not remotely acceptable or viable.

You're correct about Hetherington - since I posted that I've been wracking my brains and my books and whilst I can't get at my stash of Open Rugbys or League Expresses to check right now I think maybe the Hetherington Plan was the proposal to go to three leagues in the first place rather than this one to force three teams out. That fits more in line with Hetherington's world view of RL as this did seem a bit discordant.

Yes I agree they were pushed.

Lots of NCL chairmen at the time were unhappy about the arrangement but the eventual consensus was to accept it.

I can assure you that this was down to Lindsay who needed to remove  ' embarrassments ' from his professional game ( perhaps a bit harsh  I accept on my part ) .

I know because  I was  on the other side of the negotiations.

Those clubs were promised a return  to the higher tier if they succeeded . And that would have created a seamless pyramid route for all clubs from  Tier 5 upwards to follow their ambitions....

But they remained  fairly useless and could not overcome the formidable opposition of the top NCL sides. So that route for all collapsed and structurally the game has  since remained disjointed. , at least in terms of club progression.

And if it was a death -knell for their many  fans. so be it - the NCL  has always prided itself on the viability of its clubs and its playing standards certainly sorted them out fairly quickly.. acceptable or otherwise..

[bar red]

10 hours ago, CmonTheBorough said:

The original Blackpool Borough club directly or indirectly spawned no fewer than nine other clubs:

Springfield Borough, Chorley Borough, Trafford Borough, Blackpool Gladiators, Chorley Borough (a different club to the previous one), Lancashire Lynx, Chorley Chieftans, Chorley Lynx, Blackpool Panthers.

These teams played professional Rugby League in Blackpool, Wigan, Chorley, Horwich, Altrincham, Preston and Lytham St Annes.

A long and winding road to eventual oblivion.
 

 

Did these clubs have 9 different investors or was it the same people under a different guise.?

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

He wanted and got 3 leagues (with a condensed division 2) 14-8-14. It was supposed to provide more intensity for those looking for promotion. Only problem was you had to play the same teams 4 times. Like all amazing plans it ran for about 3 years (circa 92-94) and was punted, a bit like the 3x8s jolly.

I know we've had this conversation recently but I really liked the second division in this system. Every game did seem to be intense. Helped by the fact that in an 8 team league, 2 went up and 2 went down. It was nuts.

And diddums to people who can't cope with playing teams several times a year. It's not like we've got 100s of teams so maybe get over yourselves.

[M j M]

8 minutes ago, del capo said:

Yes I agree they were pushed.

I can assure you that this was down to Lindsay who needed to remove  ' embarrassments ' from his professional game ( perhaps a bit harsh  I accept on my part ) .

 

Not sure whether his "sludge, drivel and dross" quote came later but these smaller clubs sure weren't what Lindsay had foremost in mind when he was plotting the game's future at Red Hall.

But even the smallest clubs have a place in the sport as long as the desire from the fans, owners and players remains and the governing body's role is to find an appropriate place for them, not delete them as if the existence of certain Rugby League clubs was inconvenient.

[Gav Wilson]

2 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I was looking through my programmes a few weeks back and found a load of Ryedale-York programmes I'd completely forgotten about. I must have picked them up in a job lot at some point cos I never even went to any of their games. 

The York City Knights heritage room will gladly take them off your hands if you need a new home for them Mr Goose... 

[del capo]

44 minutes ago, M j M said:

Not sure whether his "sludge, drivel and dross" quote came later but these smaller clubs sure weren't what Lindsay had foremost in mind when he was plotting the game's future at Red Hall.

But even the smallest clubs have a place in the sport as long as the desire from the fans, owners and players remains and the governing body's role is to find an appropriate place for them, not delete them as if the existence of certain Rugby League clubs was inconvenient.

Lindsay would say he found a place for them , and a way back , but they simply were not up to it.......

[del capo]

Google ' Framing the Future ' august 1994. I still have my blue hard back copy.

We didn't  adopt it.

 The NRL  effectively did.

Look where they are now..........

[doc]

11 hours ago, CmonTheBorough said:

The original Blackpool Borough club directly or indirectly spawned no fewer than nine other clubs:

Springfield Borough, Chorley Borough, Trafford Borough, Blackpool Gladiators, Chorley Borough (a different club to the previous one), Lancashire Lynx, Chorley Chieftans, Chorley Lynx, Blackpool Panthers.

These teams played professional Rugby League in Blackpool, Wigan, Chorley, Horwich, Altrincham, Preston and Lytham St Annes.

A long and winding road to eventual oblivion.
 

 

Made me think. Watched them at Altrincham, Chorley(ironically at Victory Park), Horwich RMI, Preston NE, Preston Grasshoppers, Blackpool Mechanics, Blackpool FC, Fylde RU. In the days when I would roam the country watching any match I could.

[Clogiron]

I remember going to watch the Cougars play Blackpool under the Gladiator's guise I think at the Mechanics ground I believe, they ran out of everything programmes, pies, ale, space, grass on the pitch, Cougars scored 82 without breaking sweat. The whole set-up was farcical yet compared with what has passed as pro RL in years since it was Headingley like, just a pity that 1000 turned up from Keighley without them planning for it or they could have made some money out of it.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

1 hour ago, Gav Wilson said:

The York City Knights heritage room will gladly take them off your hands if you need a new home for them Mr Goose... 

Please, call me HG, most people round here do!

I would happily donate them to York City Knights, I don't need them and they'd be going to somewhere that would appreciate them more. I just checked and I have 7, PM me if you want to know more.

[Mr Plow]

4 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I really can't decide whether the game would be better off with an inter-city rivalry in Leeds or not. Its a shame the other clubs have fallen away or disappeared entirely.

Don’t think Leeds would be big enough for two big teams. Seems more sensible to focus all the resources on Leeds and have a big rivalry with Bradford

[Number 16]

One club missing from the list of those gone missing is Carlisle, who, during those years, were in Division Two. It's now twenty-three years since their demise.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

5 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I was looking through my programmes a few weeks back and found a load of Ryedale-York programmes I'd completely forgotten about. I must have picked them up in a job lot at some point cos I never even went to any of their games. 

Just a thought, HG, but if you had completely forgotten that you had these programmes, how can you be certain you didn't go to the games?  Maybe you have completely forgotten that too!

I am now at the age when I sometimes discover irrefutable evidence that I did or said something, but cannot for the life of me recall it!

[The Hallucinating Goose]

1 minute ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

Just a thought, HG, but if you had completely forgotten that you had these programmes, how can you be certain you didn't go to the games?  Maybe you have completely forgotten that too!

I am now at the age when I sometimes discover irrefutable evidence that I did or said something, but cannot for the life of me recall it!

Because the programmes are from the early 90s and I wasn't even going to rugby league then. 

[Hopping Mad]

On 01/09/2020 at 20:23, bar red said:

I was given a testimonial book of a Barrow favourite Neil Shaw and was reminded of a few teams that appeared then disappeared just as quickly. All pre SL, so i presume self funded.

Boy, that was a poor Whitehaven side in 1991-92. Better only than Highfield (marginally!), Chorley, Trafford and Nottingham. I watched virtually every game, home and away!

[Hopping Mad]

14 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

Bramley moved to Headingley after leaving McLaren Field, think didn’t they also play next to kirkstall abbey for a season? There was also talk about them moving to groundshare with Farsley Celtic.

Bramley spent a short time - 1996, at least - at Clarence Field, the former Headingley RUFC ground.

The RFL didn't think the facilities at Throstle Nest, Farsley, were good enough for semi-pro rugby league. A bizarre decision.

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

1 hour ago, Number 16 said:

One club missing from the list of those gone missing is Carlisle, who, during those years, were in Division Two. It's now twenty-three years since their demise.

Mansfield Marksmen came and went around that time too.