Oldbear Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 The toughest time in any pro athletes career is when they get to the point where they either retire gracefully or carry on as a faded cameo of their original self. To SBW’s credit he has never driven the hype train and seems to be a genuine guy. It is a shame he never got to play in Canada as he would undoubtedly generated media interest sadly it was not to be and perhaps the driver behind this last go with the Roosters is a determination not to go out with a whimper, as would have been the case if he had called it a day a couple of months ago. I supported the theory behind his TWP signing as he would most definitely generated attention for the club this side of the pond, sadly he was surrounded by an inadequate supporting cast and was too old and too long away from the game to play the key playmaker role. Maybe at the Roosters the sheer level of quality around him will allow him to play the short cameo role that his body is perhaps now suited to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Watt Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 10 hours ago, Dave T said: Yeah, plenty of coverage and noise, the $32m is one of those silly numbers but he absolutely generated noise for SL. Another sillier number was the prediction by a RL executive here in Aus that interest in his debut would generate 100 million viewers around the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 10 hours ago, Tommygilf said: Indeed, I'd be minded to change the cap rules on signing RU players to be even more lenient than currently. Yes, me too. People often look back with Rose tinted specs over history, but one of the biggest differences now is that our player base does not include a whole segment. Let's be honest, most of our clubs have Welsh legends in their history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 8 hours ago, Futtocks said: But is there anyone left in Australian RU who's worth either a headline or as a player? I couldn't name a current Wallaby regular without the help of Mr Google. The difference is that you get coverage as default because they are generally better known in the sport world and with a whole population of sports journos. Maybe ARU players are a bad example, but 6N players absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 32 minutes ago, Dave T said: Yes, me too. People often look back with Rose tinted specs over history, but one of the biggest differences now is that our player base does not include a whole segment. Let's be honest, most of our clubs have Welsh legends in their history. Considering they estimate around 1000 welshmen came north I think its pretty safe to say they all do, and at the time they've had historical success too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 I disagree with the consensus opinion on here that he is past it and won't be able to get in shape to play. The guy has kept himself phenomenally fit over the years and I don't remember him having too many serious injuries. His faith dictates he doesn't drink and the fact he played in the centre in Union is a plus here as he will have kept himself out of a lot of hard stuff which will elongate his career. If Cam Smith (2 years older) can knock out 80 minutes in the middle of the park then Williams can get fit enough... the Roosters team will be working hard on his endurance fitness. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I disagree with the consensus opinion on here that he is past it and won't be able to get in shape to play. The guy has kept himself phenomenally fit over the years and I don't remember him having too many serious injuries. His faith dictates he doesn't drink and the fact he played in the centre in Union is a plus here as he will have kept himself out of a lot of hard stuff which will elongate his career. If Cam Smith (2 years older) can knock out 80 minutes in the middle of the park then Williams can get fit enough... the Roosters team will be working hard on his endurance fitness. He’s never going to be in the run on side,Robinson will be hoping they get him fit enough to make significant impact off the bench which should be achievable. The biggest threat to him is not his fitness,it’s the return to fitness of Mitch Aubusson and will Robinson carry 2 backrowers on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Davo5 said: He’s never going to be in the run on side,Robinson will be hoping they get him fit enough to make significant impact off the bench which should be achievable. The biggest threat to him is not his fitness,it’s the return to fitness of Mitch Aubusson and will Robinson carry 2 backrowers on the bench. Yes, I agree with this. I would be very surprised if got anywhere near the edge forward role with Cordner, Tupouniua and Crichton in the 17. The talk is that he will be an impact forward in the middle of the park. He could play a role similar to Victor Radley in the middle... some ball handling alongside some big defence. I think a ball handling middle forward is what the Roosters have lacked since Radley was injured and Williams has the skills to do this but I think this would be off the bench and not for the 80 minutes. Overall, I think Williams would be best suited to an edge role in the modern game and his skill set is perfect for it. Just not at the Roosters as they have loads of talent there. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirteenthman Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Whatever his value on or off the pitch, it certainly worked well for Fox. Record streaming figures for SBW's return (although I suspect it would've done well anyway given it was a GF rematch):- https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2020-raiders-vs-roosters-grand-final-rematch-audience-numbers-round-17-sonny-bill-williams-nrl-return/news-story/1be6e792f2b5a4a08208a97c82cf3a40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 4 hours ago, Dunbar said: Yes, I agree with this. I would be very surprised if got anywhere near the edge forward role with Cordner, Tupouniua and Crichton in the 17. The talk is that he will be an impact forward in the middle of the park. He could play a role similar to Victor Radley in the middle... some ball handling alongside some big defence. I think a ball handling middle forward is what the Roosters have lacked since Radley was injured and Williams has the skills to do this but I think this would be off the bench and not for the 80 minutes. Overall, I think Williams would be best suited to an edge role in the modern game and his skill set is perfect for it. Just not at the Roosters as they have loads of talent there. I agree with the last part, even when he was at Toronto, he was very much a peripheral edge forward. He's got the handling skills but often overplayed his hand, probably through trying too hard. Whilst he looks in good shape, it didn't look like he could endure the physicality of SL, let alone NRL. In that regard, he is nothing like Radley, nor could he ever replicate the role he plays. A luxury edge forward is what he is now. I'd take Aubusson over him though, on top of the 3 you mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 2 hours ago, DoubleD said: I agree with the last part, even when he was at Toronto, he was very much a peripheral edge forward. He's got the handling skills but often overplayed his hand, probably through trying too hard. Whilst he looks in good shape, it didn't look like he could endure the physicality of SL, let alone NRL. In that regard, he is nothing like Radley, nor could he ever replicate the role he plays. A luxury edge forward is what he is now. I'd take Aubusson over him though, on top of the 3 you mention As I have said already, I don't subscribe to the view that he is not able to endure the physicallity of the NRL. He may not be an 80 minute middle forward, but he will be able to make a decent contribution given time (that may be the biggest hurdle here as there is not a massive amount of the regular season left now). As for his role. Robinson is quoted as saying after the Raiders game... "Obviously he is not a middle defender, so he has played back row his whole career and centre in rugby union. But that's what the team needed from him, and he knew that, so I was really happy with his movements there. He had some goal-line defence sets to do and I thought he did really well... ...the ability to offer some combination plays and some running and passing and you can see his eyes are wide when it comes to the attacking side of the game. That doesn't seem a million miles away from the role Radley was playing as a ball handling middle forward before his injury. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Radley is a rock solid middle defender , one of the very best . As well as being a cog in the attack and an 80 minute player. He’s a total dynamo with and without the ball . The without the ball bit is the biggest effort and biggest challenge . If they want to go with Sonny Bill on the bench for that role it’s still a big physical effort , and time isn’t on their side and they’re not short of athletic forwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Anyone else irritated by how this thread doesn't have the title "Money Bill Williams"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Just now, Tommygilf said: Anyone else irritated by how this thread doesn't have the title "Money Bill Williams"? Dollar Bill Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, DavidM said: Dollar Bill Williams Exactly, multiple improved alternatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Exactly, multiple improved alternatives wonga willy williams see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Dunbar said: That doesn't seem a million miles away from the role Radley was playing as a ball handling middle forward before his injury. You must be watching a different game to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, DoubleD said: You must be watching a different game to me I was watching the game where Victor Radley was playing a key role as a link between the middle forwards and the halves. As described in this article by Paul Gallen here (and also the panel describing how the Roosters would have to adjust their game without the linking skills of Radley). He's been mainly known as a defensive weapon but he's become a real link between their hooker Jake Friend and their halves, Luke Keary and Kyle Flanagan, on both sides of the field. He'd struck up a great combination with Friend out of dummy-half. https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/paul-gallen-column-sydney-roosters-victor-radley-injury-flanagan-friend/448d6e38-4ab6-4c5b-907b-2d1677cd8c1d What game have you been watching? "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I was watching the game where Victor Radley was playing a key role as a link between the middle forwards and the halves. As described in this article by Paul Gallen here (and also the panel describing how the Roosters would have to adjust their game without the linking skills of Radley). He's been mainly known as a defensive weapon but he's become a real link between their hooker Jake Friend and their halves, Luke Keary and Kyle Flanagan, on both sides of the field. He'd struck up a great combination with Friend out of dummy-half. https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/paul-gallen-column-sydney-roosters-victor-radley-injury-flanagan-friend/448d6e38-4ab6-4c5b-907b-2d1677cd8c1d What game have you been watching? The other half of the game, when they're defending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, DoubleD said: The other half of the game, when they're defending So why did you quote the part of my post that that was about the ball handling role from Radley... you know the part when they're attacking? "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, Dunbar said: So why did you quote the part of my post that that was about the ball handling role from Radley... you know the part when they're attacking? Because he didn't appear to be playing that role either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 am sure if u asked trent robinson to either lose radley- crichton- butcher -tupouniua or mr money grabber from his team selection for the play offs it wouldnt take him long to decide see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, DoubleD said: Because he didn't appear to be playing that role either He was only on the pitch 14 minutes and he threw 5 passes (admittedly one was from dummy half). The rest of the Roosters middle forwards threw 6 passes between them in the whole game. Williams threw a linking pass to the half backs and a short pass to a running forward. Look, I am not saying Williams is going to smash the NRL this year but if you look at his contribution at the weekend and read what Robinson has to say about him it is pretty obvious that his role will be that of a creative/linking middle forward and the Roosters have lacked this since the injury to Radley and without that injury there is no way that the Roosters would have gone after Williams. He won't be able to play the minutes Radley did but I am sure Robinson will see his time on the pitch as a way of mixing up their play having different attacking structures at different phases of the game. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said: am sure if u asked trent robinson to either lose radley- crichton- butcher -tupouniua or mr money grabber from his team selection for the play offs it wouldnt take him long to decide I'm pretty sure he would reply that it is an irrelevant question as you can't decide who to lose to injury. What you can do is build your squad to potentially mitigate the impact of those losses which is what he has done by bringing in Williams. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Dunbar said: He was only on the pitch 14 minutes and he threw 5 passes (admittedly one was from dummy half). The rest of the Roosters middle forwards threw 6 passes between them in the whole game. Williams threw a linking pass to the half backs and a short pass to a running forward. Look, I am not saying Williams is going to smash the NRL this year but if you look at his contribution at the weekend and read what Robinson has to say about him it is pretty obvious that his role will be that of a creative/linking middle forward and the Roosters have lacked this since the injury to Radley and without that injury there is no way that the Roosters would have gone after Williams. He won't be able to play the minutes Radley did but I am sure Robinson will see his time on the pitch as a way of mixing up their play having different attacking structures at different phases of the game. Perhaps you have a point..............I viewed him passing, as him not wanting to make contact/do the tough stuff, but perhaps it was a plan. He's not suited to the middle so I can't see him playing in the Radley role even if he does play more minutes. I actually think the Roosters are more dangerous when the likes of Taukieaho and JWH mix it up and pass at the line. Sonny has silky hands but he needs to engage the defensive line to make an impact. Even in his time at Toronto, he seemed to shy away from the tough stuff, and often looked at offloading in precarious situations when he did get hit. It's sad because I wanted to see him back at a decent level but he's a shadow of himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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