gingerjon Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Anyway, we're agreed. There's no professional sport that anyone can think of that doesn't enforce off-the-pitch standards and requirements alongside any performance on the pitch. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 15 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Anyway, we're agreed. There's no professional sport that anyone can think of that doesn't enforce off-the-pitch standards and requirements alongside any performance on the pitch. Davis Cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Just now, Sports Prophet said: Davis Cup? It's a very low blow to make me look up tennis tournament rules ... Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clogiron Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Given RLs history of trying something short term, scrapping it then returning to it a few years later I think licensing will be back sooner or later. I'm still waiting for the Mackeson Trophy to return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Tommygilf said: Perhaps then a rephrase is necessary. Its not that teams would be put in SL, but that some, by means of criteria, would be cut out/off until that improves. A standards + gf win would be interesting..... as long as that criteria is assessed across the board..... including current SL incumbents. Cos wakey and cas will tow if leigh win the gf.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 26 minutes ago, gingerjon said: It's a very low blow to make me look up tennis tournament rules ... Don’t bother, I will give you an out. You said professional. Davis Cup has no prize money. Let me try and think of another one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Robin Evans said: A standards + gf win would be interesting..... as long as that criteria is assessed across the board..... including current SL incumbents. Cos wakey and cas will tow if leigh win the gf.... And that’s the problem,last time we had licensing teams in Superleague continually got away with not achieving the standards that Championship clubs were expected to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 I’ve thought long and hard about what the criteria should be. There’s so many important factors that should be taken into account. So many hugely important things that need to be prioritised for the growth of the game here in the UK. Therefore, all teams will be judged on the following criteria. - Having a number of pubs in the immediate vicinity to their stadium. *** one extra point is awarded for having a great pub (eg one that has an array of beers both ales and lagers beyond your ‘normal’ four or five pump lagers) *** - Having a number of good eateries within the immediate vicinity of the stadium. *** one point is awarded per cuisine, however, a club will only receive one point for multiple good cuisines, like one point is awarded for having two good Indians, for example ***. - If you are the Catalans Dragons and your home games are played in Perpignan or Toulouse Olympique, playing in Toulouse, France. - Not having a cowbell or ‘band’. —————————————————— That’s all the important things covered, so bring on Super League 2021. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Davo5 said: And that’s the problem,last time we had licensing teams in Superleague continually got away with not achieving the standards that Championship clubs were expected to. Because it was done badly and there weren't actually enough teams (probably still aren't) who met all the criteria and then too many in a rump who met more or less the same standards each. That's why I'd go for tough (and enforced) standards-based P&R. But, and this is where we may differ, I'd not relegate any side now based on not meeting the standards just that if they then drop out of the division through relegation then they, like any other team in the tier below, couldn't be promoted back until they do. And I wouldn't have a get-out clause for London even though it would very nice to have a get-out clause for London. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Because it was done badly and there weren't actually enough teams (probably still aren't) who met all the criteria and then too many in a rump who met more or less the same standards each. That's why I'd go for tough (and enforced) standards-based P&R. But, and this is where we may differ, I'd not relegate any side now based on not meeting the standards just that if they then drop out of the division through relegation then they, like any other team in the tier below, couldn't be promoted back until they do. And I wouldn't have a get-out clause for London even though it would very nice to have a get-out clause for London. But then your just allowing the same teams who play in sh##holes and those who pay lip service to player development to continue to benefit as instead of investing in those things theyonly have to invest sufficiently to avoid finishing bottom of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, Davo5 said: But then your just allowing the same teams who play in sh##holes and those who pay lip service to player development to continue to benefit as instead of investing in those things theyonly have to invest sufficiently to avoid finishing bottom of the league. Yes. It's not perfect. But given the resources available to the sport it may be the only way forward. I guess you could set a minimum standard framework, give teams three years to reach it, and then punt out any who haven't made the grade - replacing them with the top ranked teams in the tier below who have. (Alongside the usual standards based P&R) Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjonn Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 4 hours ago, Eddie said: Yes they need to meet criteria but they also need to win promotion on the pitch. People saying club A (generally Toulouse) should be ‘put’ in SL is nonsense, as is getting rid of P&R. the thread heading does say "if licencing".... myself I prefer P&R but strategically see France as being more important than NA... if we had a strategy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldbear Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Davo5 said: But then your just allowing the same teams who play in sh##holes and those who pay lip service to player development to continue to benefit as instead of investing in those things theyonly have to invest sufficiently to avoid finishing bottom of the league. And this is my original point. I don’t want licensing to return, but I suspect it will in some form so how do we stop existing SL clubs doing the above whilst demanding the earth from Championship teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBoy295 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said: I’ve thought long and hard about what the criteria should be. There’s so many important factors that should be taken into account. So many hugely important things that need to be prioritised for the growth of the game here in the UK. Therefore, all teams will be judged on the following criteria. - Having a number of pubs in the immediate vicinity to their stadium. *** one extra point is awarded for having a great pub (eg one that has an array of beers both ales and lagers beyond your ‘normal’ four or five pump lagers) *** - Having a number of good eateries within the immediate vicinity of the stadium. *** one point is awarded per cuisine, however, a club will only receive one point for multiple good cuisines, like one point is awarded for having two good Indians, for example ***. - If you are the Catalans Dragons and your home games are played in Perpignan or Toulouse Olympique, playing in Toulouse, France. - Not having a cowbell or ‘band’. —————————————————— That’s all the important things covered, so bring on Super League 2021. Thats a lot of Yorkshiremen you have just brassed off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 15 minutes ago, Oldbear said: And this is my original point. I don’t want licensing to return, but I suspect it will in some form so how do we stop existing SL clubs doing the above whilst demanding the earth from Championship teams? You would need an independent panel with a transparent points scoring system ( Good luck with that) Looking at the Championship therare in my opinion only 3 clubs who could realistically be competitive in Superleague Toulouse,Leigh & London,I'd bring all 3 into Superleague so you'd have 15 clubs if TWP are allowed in,then have a 2 yr period for each club to meet the criteria with the worst performing relegated to the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 5 hours ago, Eddie said: That’s not old fashioned, it’s just common sense. "Common sense" = "the same thing that I am thinking" Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 7 hours ago, DavidM said: I’m very old fashioned . Decide things on the pitch , if you deserve it you get relegated ... if you earn it you get promoted . I could agree with this provided you made it a condition that no more than, say, five additional players were recruited for the next level. Otherwise having a requirement to win promotion on the pitch is actually meaningless. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said: I could agree with this provided you made it a condition that no more than, say, five additional players were recruited for the next level. Otherwise having a requirement to win promotion on the pitch is actually meaningless. You’ve lost me , which isn’t difficult . But I think winning promotion on the pitch should be the basis of advancement . You can talk about meeting minimum standards but everything starts with what you’ve earned through performance imo . I’m totally against getting rid of that and judging solely on off field stuff . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Robin Evans said: A standards + gf win would be interesting..... as long as that criteria is assessed across the board..... including current SL incumbents. Cos wakey and cas will tow if leigh win the gf.... Absolutely. I doubt they'd ever get the agreement to place immediate relegation in for clubs that didn't meet facilities criteria in particular. That said, a 5 year grace period with a season in the process of forming those regulations could knock heads together. There's also the reality that a lot of clubs look very different between Super League and Championship, and arguably even more so between relegation scrappers and steady Super League clubs. London after 4 years in Super League consistently improving may look at investing in a better ground for example which would make no sense in the championship. There's only two solutions to that problem which is either stopping relegation or putting more places in Super league so that the risk of being outside the top 6 isn't bottom half of the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbruce Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 1 criteria raise the Salary cap to £3m and clubs guarantee to spend a minimum of say £2.4m. The clubs that can do are in the clubs that can’t come back when you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire Warrior Dragon Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said: I’ve thought long and hard about what the criteria should be. There’s so many important factors that should be taken into account. So many hugely important things that need to be prioritised for the growth of the game here in the UK. Therefore, all teams will be judged on the following criteria. - Having a number of pubs in the immediate vicinity to their stadium. *** one extra point is awarded for having a great pub (eg one that has an array of beers both ales and lagers beyond your ‘normal’ four or five pump lagers) *** - Having a number of good eateries within the immediate vicinity of the stadium. *** one point is awarded per cuisine, however, a club will only receive one point for multiple good cuisines, like one point is awarded for having two good Indians, for example ***. - If you are the Catalans Dragons and your home games are played in Perpignan or Toulouse Olympique, playing in Toulouse, France. - Not having a cowbell or ‘band’. —————————————————— That’s all the important things covered, so bring on Super League 2021. 56 minutes ago, RoyBoy295 said: Thats a lot of Yorkshiremen you have just brassed off Not to mention the brave entrepreneurs behind the Interlaken Cowherds RLFC project! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, DavidM said: You’ve lost me , which isn’t difficult . But I think winning promotion on the pitch should be the basis of advancement . You can talk about meeting minimum standards but everything starts with what you’ve earned through performance imo . I’m totally against getting rid of that and judging solely on off field stuff . I think what he means (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) is that for most of the championship bar London, Toulouse and for a time Leigh, winning promotion actually means ditching virtually your entire squad because they're part time. What has been encouraging is the amount of professionalisation in the championship in the past 5 years, but this remains a somewhat stubborn reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, bobbruce said: 1 criteria raise the Salary cap to £3m and clubs guarantee to spend a minimum of say £2.4m. The clubs that can do are in the clubs that can’t come back when you can. Leeds, Hull FC, Saints, Wigan, Warrington, Catalans - maybe with a good investor Toulouse, Huddersfield and Toronto. Leigh, Castleford, Hull KR, London, Wakefield, Salford and below, no chance. I agree with the principle if not the exact numbers though that minimum spend is almost as important as the cap itself to the credibility of the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 15 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Absolutely. I doubt they'd ever get the agreement to place immediate relegation in for clubs that didn't meet facilities criteria in particular. That said, a 5 year grace period with a season in the process of forming those regulations could knock heads together. They've had twenty four years ffs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Just now, Robin Evans said: They've had twenty four years ffs! They've barely updated in 70+ years but have never had a cast iron threat of relegation that could be held up with viable second tier replacements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.