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Tommygilf

ISC pulling out?

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Just now, whatmichaelsays said:

What is your idea of "plenty"?

Those League Two football clubs with Adidas shirts aren't behind paid by Adidas to wear them - that's the difference. 

Farsley Celtic used to wear Nike shirts - they were provided by the sort of teamwear supplier that Dog & Gun FC can use. Adidas are happy to provide blank kits to bulk teamwear suppliers, but what clubs really want is a supplier to pay them for wearing their gear. 

Our clubs sell enough volume for the likes of Oxen and O'Neills for that, but what we offer is back of the sofa money for the mega-brands in the sporting world. 

I know they’re not paid to wear them, but they’re bespoke and Adidas take a share of the profit. 
How many jerseys do Leeds Rhinos sell each year compared to your average League One football team - I’d say a fair few more. 

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Just now, Tommygilf said:

I think the promotion overshadows how much of a genuine step up in quality and prestige there is in this. There wasn't anywhere near the same uplift for Norwich with Errea getting promoted was there?

Maybe its because I'm younger and there is much more of a focus on brands at my age group.

You’re probably right, most of our shirts for the last few years have been mediocre (primarily because of our colours) but I’d never considered that people might not buy one because it’s a relatively unknown manufacturer, or that they would because it’s a well known one. 

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4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

You’re probably right, most of our shirts for the last few years have been mediocre (primarily because of our colours) but I’d never considered that people might not buy one because it’s a relatively unknown manufacturer, or that they would because it’s a well known one. 

There's a good few examples, Spurs moving from Under Armour to Nike, Celtic from New Balance to Adidas, Liverpool from NB to Nike spring to mind. There's obviously also a few the other way too.

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20 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I know they’re not paid to wear them, but they’re bespoke and Adidas take a share of the profit. 
How many jerseys do Leeds Rhinos sell each year compared to your average League One football team - I’d say a fair few more. 

Merchandising / retail income isn't listed in the Leeds accounts but for comparison, Rotherham United, a club with a comparable turnover to Leeds Rhinos and an average attendance in the 9-10k range, generated around £500k from merchandising in the last year and £530k the year before. If we assume a similar figure for the Rhinos, that's a figure that's 0.0025% of Adidas' annual revenue. 

Adidas aren't supplying those football clubs. They're supplying a wholesaler - a much cheaper way of doing business because there is zero marketing effort involved and the only design changes involved are the colour swatches. 

I go back to the question I mentioned earlier - do clubs turn down the money on the table from an Oxen in order to gamble that there is a massive amount of pent-up demand for Leeds Rhinos shirts with three stripes on the shoulder?  

Edited by whatmichaelsays

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1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

How is it talking the game down without reason? 

Sponsor Saracens or Harlequins, and you're kit logos are seen by TV audiences in the UK, Ireland, France, Italy, Spain and wherever else the European cup is played. 

 

Deary me. Being shown doesn't mean anybody is watching. Club union is not by any means a tv ratings juggernaut .

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6 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Merchandising / retail income isn't listed in the Leeds accounts but for comparison, Rotherham United, a club with a comparable turnover to Leeds Rhinos and an average attendance in the 9-10k range, generated around £500k from merchandising in the last year and £530k the year before. If we assume a similar figure for the Rhinos, that's a figure that's 0.0025% of Adidas' annual revenue. 

Adidas aren't supplying those football clubs. They're supplying a wholesaler - a much cheaper way of doing business because there is zero marketing effort involved and the only design changes involved are the colour swatches. 

I go back to the question I mentioned earlier - do clubs turn down the money on the table from an Oxen in order to gamble that there is a massive amount of pent-up demand for Leeds Rhinos shirts with three stripes on the shoulder?  

I don’t think it’s a fair comparison, Rotherham’s turnover is higher because there’s more tv and prize money. They are nowhere near as well as supported, their brand isn’t as recognisable and they won’t sell anywhere near as many shirts or other merch as the Rhinos. 
 

I do however appreciate what you’re saying about it being so small compared to Adidas’ overall business. 

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17 minutes ago, M j M said:

Deary me. Being shown doesn't mean anybody is watching. Club union is not by any means a tv ratings juggernaut .

And RL is? Hasn't Super League fallen behind darts these days?

I've only got the ERC PR-spiel to go on at the moment, but they reckon 500k watched 2019 final in the USA. 

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15 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I don’t think it’s a fair comparison, Rotherham’s turnover is higher because there’s more tv and prize money. They are nowhere near as well as supported, their brand isn’t as recognisable and they won’t sell anywhere near as many shirts or other merch as the Rhinos. 
 

I do however appreciate what you’re saying about it being so small compared to Adidas’ overall business. 

TV income in League One is around £1.5m - less than Super League. Prize money is nothing to write home about either. I'd say that makes it a fair comparison. 

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Big brands will have a division within that supplies Team Wear for the smaller teams to purchase and re-brand. Check out pumateamwear.com for an example. This is not Puma working with teams like they do with AC Milan or BVB Dortmund or Man City. This is very different, and very much locally activated. They will have a similar set up in each of the global regions (UK and Europe, APAC, Africa, US and LTAM)

I'm sure Adidas et al will have a similar set up


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2 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

TV income in League One is around £1.5m - less than Super League. Prize money is nothing to write home about either. I'd say that makes it a fair comparison. 

Ok, but there is FA Cup etc, plus they have more games so thus more turnover from tickets but that doesn’t mean more shirts sold - if that makes sense. 
Even in rural Norfolk you see the odd Leeds Rhinos shirt about, I’ve never seen a Rotherham one. 

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13 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

And RL is? Hasn't Super League fallen behind darts these days?

I've only got the ERC PR-spiel to go on at the moment, but they reckon 500k watched 2019 final in the USA. 

And you believe that!??!

10 billion watch the RUWC Final!

Edited by Tommygilf
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19 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

And you believe that!??!

10 billion watch the RUWC Final!

I didn't say I did (hence the pretty big caveat). But I also don't have the evidence to refute it (yet).

How many people watch Super League on NBC?

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1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

And RL is? Hasn't Super League fallen behind darts these days?

I've only got the ERC PR-spiel to go on at the moment, but they reckon 500k watched 2019 final in the USA. 

I didn't say anything about club RL but pretending club RU  is watched by millions more is just not the case.

It's Keith Senior and Peter Sterling fighting over a comb (except one of them thinks they're Tawera Nikau in his mullet era, i'll give you that).

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4 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

From a Rhinos centric point of view we need to make sure we have a decent kit manufacturer. Considering our neighbours LUFC have just surpassed 300,000 shirts in the opening 2 weeks of being on sale and half the city will be in Adidas gear now, if the Rhinos go for a cheap option it will only be highlighted further by this juxtaposition.

I've seen the Elite Pro/Oxen stuff at Cas, Hull KR, Yorkshire Carnegie and Gloucester RU and am very worried we'll end up like that. A regressive step imo.

Looks like Oxen will take over and it does seem like a step backwards. It’s something lower league and small clubs have not a big club like Leeds who you’d expect to have a brand most people have heard of, granted ISC did mostly rugby but they had a portfolio of most SL and NRL clubs until recently.

I wouldn’t expect a big brand like Nike or Adidas to get involved with RL but O’Neills, Canterbury, Hummel ect are all known names

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Just now, Mr Plow said:

Looks like Oxen will take over and it does seem like a step backwards. It’s something lower league and small clubs have not a big club like Leeds who you’d expect to have a brand most people have heard of, granted ISC did mostly rugby but they had a portfolio of most SL and NRL clubs until recently.

I wouldn’t expect a big brand like Nike or Adidas to get involved with RL but O’Neills, Canterbury, Hummel ect are all known names

Thats my worry mate. I think it reflects an overall malaise as the club that has seen us go backwards in every area apart from the North Stand in the past 5 years.

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11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Thats my worry mate. I think it reflects an overall malaise as the club that has seen us go backwards in every area apart from the North Stand in the past 5 years.

It’s strange. I think the new stadium is great (would prefer the south stand to be all stand but hey ho) but it’s one of the few positive off field changes that have happened over the last few years. It’s everything from no trophy parades to a kit manufacturer no one has heard. Like there is no ambition anymore after a period of success. 
 

The only club I see doing anything interesting and exciting is Warrington

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Interestingly I had a look on the Leeds Utd shop a few weeks ago and was quite impressed with the looks and range of their Gear. I’m not a football fan but it whetted my appetite for a news casual sports top so went onto the Leeds rl shop. The range and looks are pretty rubbish and to be honest I can’t remember the last time I liked a Leeds shirt, aside from the super dry retro. 
Whoever takes it over may not be any better but they can’t be much worse

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I think its a bit unfair to bundle the likes of Oxen et al into an unflattering collective. Everyone has to start somewhere, remember that. I've not seen any of their products up close, so cant comment on their quality, but if Leeds want quality, i'm pretty sure Oxen could provide that, if Leeds, or anyone else, were willing to pay for it.

Year after year the technical/performance fabrics many sports teams jerseys are made from get cheaper and cheaper (apart from now, with the Covid effect, its gone the other way in certain places). So it's infinitely more possible for smaller brands to provide a quality that they might not have been able to previously. Quality should not be an issue.

What you do get with the big brands is huge kudos due to the association, and the experience and expertise in many areas they can provide. Not just in actual product, but across the board.

You could argue RL doesn't need that association currently, as we are still a very closely guarded secret to the sporting public, certainly to the young sports fan. The same fans that purchased a shirt 5 years ago, are likely still the same customers buying a shirt in 2020 and 2021.

A lot of clubs probably wont work exclusively with one supplier for things such as off-field products, which is usually where you get the mix of quality and lack of consistency in terms of what things look like. See Englands first season with Hummel as an example. Teamwear made by Hummel in Denmark, everything else made by the UK license holder.

Edited by EastLondonMike

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6 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I never said that at all. I said that quality kits and off field gear sells better than cheap feeling tat and that would look even worse with half the city decked out in world class quality apparel too. I will happily say that if we get cheap rubbish it will sell worse than ISC has unless they put significant discounts on - which has been a ploy they've used multiple times this year. 

I think the main sponsor also plays a part. Not of relevance to the Rhinos but who wants a shirt with cash converters blazed over it? 

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2 hours ago, Mr Plow said:


 

The only club I see doing anything interesting and exciting is Warrington

I don’t think Saints are regressing either, but Wigan certainly seem to be (if their alarming reduction in attendances is owt to go by) as well as Hull to some extent. So basically 3 of the big 5. It’s a worry. 

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2 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

I think the main sponsor also plays a part. Not of relevance to the Rhinos but who wants a shirt with cash converters blazed over it? 

Not me that’s for sure, I won’t even buy my son one. 

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5 hours ago, M j M said:

Deary me. Being shown doesn't mean anybody is watching. Club union is not by any means a tv ratings juggernaut .

Picking out places like Spain as well and naming stars like Vunipola - really clutching at straws. Farrell is the only semi famous union player in the northern hemisphere and it’s nothing compared with stars of yesteryear. The only reason club union gets those brands is due to contacts 

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1 hour ago, DoubleD said:

I think the main sponsor also plays a part. Not of relevance to the Rhinos but who wants a shirt with cash converters blazed over it? 

Thats true as well. All the Leeds United fans I've spoken to are very happy we got Leeds shirts before they slapped a black JD sports sticker on the shoulder.

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