Points averages in!

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

I'm not saying that clubs would do this...

You just did. It's right there. You saying it.

Yes, it is open to manipulation but the alternative is a league where some teams are trying to play X number of games in X-1 number of days. This is a pretty reasonable response.

It's also how dirty cheats Leigh manipulated their way to the title in, I think, 1906.

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, Gisburn said:

I agree but until the RFL name the date of the GF and when the semis are to be, it's pointless assessing how many games teams will have played.

I believe they had named a date in mid November. There was a statement with all the dates on including the cup and grand finals I think

[Gisburn]

7 minutes ago, Szymala said:

Has anyone seen a proper refreshed league table yet ?

The ones on the SL website & BBC are still showing points difference and not points percentage where teams are level ?

By my reckoning, on that basis, Hull are above Giants and Hull KR are off the bottom above Trinity. Or have I read it wrong ? 

 

Despite it now showing PSP it is correct as PSP is the decider between clubs on the same win percentage. Giants are above Hull as win % is 44.4 v 40. Wakey have a win % of 25 over Salford and HKR's 22.2% Salford are above HKR as PSPs are 65.6 and 56.4 respectively.

[Szymala]

5 minutes ago, Gisburn said:

Despite it now showing PSP it is correct as PSP is the decider between clubs on the same win percentage. Giants are above Hull as win % is 44.4 v 40. Wakey have a win % of 25 over Salford and HKR's 22.2% Salford are above HKR as PSPs are 65.6 and 56.4 respectively.

Ah, thanks for that. I overlooked the fact that Trinity had played a game less than Rovers, and Giants one less than Hull.

But with Saints, Warrington & Wigan all level on win% shouldn't PSPs be on the league table, not their points differences ?

 

[Gisburn]

1 minute ago, Szymala said:

Ah, thanks for that. I overlooked the fact that Trinity had played a game less than Rovers, and Giants one less than Hull.

But with Saints, Warrington & Wigan all level on win% shouldn't PSPs be on the league table, not their points differences ?

 

I agree. Guess that's beyond the RFL at the moment

[Saint Toppy]

Its bad enough that they're using this fudged system to decide the Top 4, at least the overall winners will be decided on the pitch. I seriously hope they're scrapping the LLS and prize money.

Imagine if say Saints or Wigan play 20 games and they win 17 - Giving them a league points total of 34 and a win ratio of 85%

Then say Catalans only manage to play 15 games and they win 13 - Giving them a league points total of only 26, but a win ratio of 86.6% meaning they finish top.

It would be absolutely farcical to award a trophy and a £100K cheque to a team who won 4 games less than the teams immediately below them.

[DavidM]

Well this all seems straightforward 

[Scubby]

Scrap the play offs for 2020 and bring back top of the table as champions..... oh wait  

[M j M]

A lot of critics but none of them give an alternative that wouldn't drive a bunch of clubs out of business.

[Scubby]

3 minutes ago, M j M said:

A lot of critics but none of them give an alternative that wouldn't drive a bunch of clubs out of business.

Agree. There is no solution which works for everyone. I think there will be a genuine struggle to get some top teams to 15 games. You could have Catalans top of the table and then missing the play-offs by not playing enough fixtures. I don't envy the guys trying to juggle these scenarios around.

[Eddie]

12 minutes ago, M j M said:

A lot of critics but none of them give an alternative that wouldn't drive a bunch of clubs out of business.

Always the same on this forum. 

[Barry Badrinath]

jesus have you seen they've just announced they're bringing back club call as well?

[Bod]

Play less games, leapfrog to the top and go into the finals with a fresher squad of players. Great system RFL.

[Dave T]

42 minutes ago, Barry Badrinath said:

jesus have you seen they've just announced they're bringing back club call as well?

Club call had nicely come of age just as they scrapped it! 

[ATLANTISMAN]

WHO CARES:)

Lets just get as many matches played as possible and get this season out of the way.

Whoever wins it won't be the same anyway sadly.

 

Paul

[Clogiron]

Having been known to occasionally criticize those who run the game I think it's a positive step to announce some contingency plans now. Plenty will pick it apart and raise problems but nobody has suggested anything better that I have seen. The salary cap changes seem ok too. Things are in a constant state of flux as we have seen both nationally and internationally so it's impossible to predict what will be the lie of the land by November but I would think spectators won't figure in the  package.

[M j M]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

Club call had nicely come of age just as they scrapped it! 

2011 and 2012 Club Calls led to two of my favourite ever games. The delightful torture of making poor Warrington and Wigan have to select that Leeds team to play and lose against was a beautiful thing.

[marklaspalmas]

Imperfect solution to a complicated situation. Hard to knock the RFL here, as much as I like to.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

9 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

Imperfect solution to a complicated situation. Hard to knock the RFL here, as much as I like to.

Although, as pointed out earlier, (even though positions would be unchanged) that table doesn't actually accurately reflect the newly published 'rules' in that it still has Pts Diff rather than Pts Scored %....

[Neil_Ormston]

6 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Although, as pointed out earlier, (even though positions would be unchanged) that table doesn't actually accurately reflect the newly published 'rules' in that it still has Pts Diff rather than Pts Scored %....

Yes, not the 'right' table, but it makes no difference to placings.  In the painstaking work I did reviewing league tables, I covered off the change from points average (which was used for 82 years) to points difference, and I think I came across about two instances where using the opposite method to that which was used had an impact on league position.  Even allowing for a difference in number of games, it's unlikely to have an impact, but is clearly the sensible approach to take just in case.

All the chatter of clubs being able to manipulate their finishing position by ducking games is tosh.  First you've got to fabricate a reason to be able to postpone, second you've got to have a good cup run, to block out the available free weekends to play any postponed games, and third you've got to avoid the risk of losing matches - it's simple maths, but the fewer games you play, the greater the impact of a loss on your %, so it's a high risk strategy.  To suggest that clubs are going to go down this route is a little silly really.

[DEANO]

They should treat this year as friendlies and have no winner

[ArmchairRhino]

I think they’ve done alright here.

 

One pernickety question: Is there anything to say what happens if a club has two potential fixtures on the same day? e.g. just the Challenge Cup final weekend left and a club has had P-P games against Saints and Hull KR. I mean, they’d want to play Hull KR, wouldn’t they? 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, M j M said:

2011 and 2012 Club Calls led to two of my favourite ever games. The delightful torture of making poor Warrington and Wigan have to select that Leeds team to play and lose against was a beautiful thing.

Let's just say I only enjoyed one of those.... 

[kev p]

it should be made sure that all teams play each of the others at least once, otherwise fixtures could be manipulated (as if) so that easier opponents are played twice & one or two harder opponents avoided. two strong clubs could arrange this to the benefit from this. independent covis tests are a must. 

[GUBRATS]

9 round UK only all televised , sorted