Robert Elstone - value for money ?

[Ooh Ah Timmy Street]

Please can someone shed a light on what Mr Elstone actually does in his working week?

At first I thought he spoke really well and was impressed by what he had to say. However , don’t see him quoted much in the trade papers, and rarely on other media. This in contrary to Peter V’Landys, who seems much more visible in the Uk whilst in charge of a competition on the other side of the world. 

His only remit for his (huge salary) was to land a new tv deal , although the general consensus is that there is only one broadcaster to negotiate with anyway. 

I am just struggling to see what value he brings - could somebody enlighten me please?

[Dave T]

I think we can only truly judge him at the end of this upcoming period. 

He should be judged on the new TV deal, commercial/sponsorship income at that time, and any movement on the private investment. 

I also think there is a piece to be done on strategy/structure. 

We shouldn't underestimate how challenging this year has been though for a unit that is pretty much a promotional arm for a comp. They can't promote and sell games to people, sponsorship funding will be very very tight and nobody knows what is happening one week from the next. 

I'd like far more visibility from him though, and some of his negativity on things like TWP isn't fitting for his role. 

[Ooh Ah Timmy Street]

29 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think we can only truly judge him at the end of this upcoming period. 

He should be judged on the new TV deal, commercial/sponsorship income at that time, and any movement on the private investment. 

I also think there is a piece to be done on strategy/structure. 

We shouldn't underestimate how challenging this year has been though for a unit that is pretty much a promotional arm for a comp. They can't promote and sell games to people, sponsorship funding will be very very tight and nobody knows what is happening one week from the next. 

I'd like far more visibility from him though, and some of his negativity on things like TWP isn't fitting for his role. 

Yes , regarding Toronto I’ve not seen any direct quotes  , though its reported his position is that he can’t see what they would bring to the game .  If they fail due diligence , then fair enough , but it seems a little short sighted from the man at the top that he can’t see how they could bring value to the comp .  

[bird]

Liability

[Hela Wigmen]

I don’t think you can compare Elstone and Vlandys in all honesty. Their roles may well be similarly titled but their job descriptions and key performance indicators are likely to be very different. 

Last year was good on the pitch, the changes in terms of shot clock and golden point worked and we had a competition that saw an underdog reach the final and a relegation battle where a third of the league could have got relegated on the final round of the season. We have sponsorships with Betfred and Dacia. 

I was looking forward to this year in its old guise, we were told of a bigger fan park at Magic that would have stretched into the city centre rather than just being in a car park behind the metro station and I was keen to see how the game progressed. This year has been unprecedented and it’s got to have been up their with the most challenging periods in Elstone’s career I imagine. I think to some extent we’re winging it week by week but that’s hardly a surprise and I think hindsight would probably see him do things differently in terms of returning to play but we must remember how resourceful and adaptable Super League and it’s clubs are being with the fixtures changing with a matter of days notice to fill the tv obligations. 

I think we let him run to the end of the TV negotiations and see what’s happened there. 

[OriginalMrC]

He led Everton into decline. I remain completely unconvinced of his value to SL and RL in general. 

[The Future is League]

5 hours ago, Ooh Ah Timmy Street said:

Yes , regarding Toronto I’ve not seen any direct quotes  , though its reported his position is that he can’t see what they would bring to the game .  If they fail due diligence , then fair enough , but it seems a little short sighted from the man at the top that he can’t see how they could bring value to the comp .  

If his position is that he can't see what a Rugby League team from North America  playing in Super League brings to it, when North American is the most lucrative sports market in the world i can't see how he can keep his job.

Surely every sport in the world which hasn't already would like a foothold in the North American sports market.

[Gooleboy]

45 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

He led Everton into decline. I remain completely unconvinced of his value to SL and RL in general. 

Is he hardly ever seen in Public, or giving out information and opinions via the Media, if he is, I apologise for missing him.

[OriginalMrC]

10 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Is he hardly ever seen in Public, or giving out information and opinions via the Media, if he is, I apologise for missing him.

Ralph Rimmer gets alot of stick but he puts himself out there and is positive about the sport. The only things that Elstone tends to say are negative. I'm not sure what he has done to sell the sport to potential investors 

[Mr Plow]

I wonder what Elstone would do differently if the clubs let him do what he wants. While we can criticise (sometimes rightly so) the people in charge of the game they come and go but the clubs will always be here and always hold the game back

[kiwis 13 6]

Elstone is well spoken and presented. however losing the existing French TV deal with Bein sports to date is the most notable thing about his performance. Even though it only covered costs it was something and provided content at no cost to Sky and reach into French market for sponsors. Elstone was right to ask for more $ for French TV rights but should have been able to do that in a way that meant worst case scenario was retaining a similar deal to the one that Super League had. The other feature of Elstones performance is Papa Johns sponsorship contra deal pizza for signage. While Papa Johns is an internationally well known brand and this deal is part an effort to associate Super League with recognizable commercial brands to increase the Super League brand. But doing a free pizza for players contra deal did not come across well in enhancing the super league brand. If it involved Super League being mentioned in Papa Johns adverting Eg promoting a discount on pizza's if you mention the Super League team you follow... now that would be something.

Then theres the Toronto Wolfpack situation obviously due diligence, checks and balances etc haven't been done as well as they should have been but that dates from before Elstones time. Nobody could have foreseen what has happened this season and how it has effected sport and travel. Wolfpack do offer the potential of increasing the sports revenue but can Elstone capitalize on that for the Super League in regards to increased TV rights and Spnsorship?

[DavidM]

3 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

He led Everton into decline. I remain completely unconvinced of his value to SL and RL in general. 

Not sure he played much of a role in Everton’s decline or otherwise on the pitch , but he did a hell of a lot off the pitch and was very highly regarded indeed

[LeeF]

Only the people who set and manage his KPIs will know whether he is value for money. If his job is to deflect the attention from the owners by making negative comments on their behalf then he is quids in

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

Elstone can’t see what Toronto bring to Super League, this shows how little vision and ambition he has for the sport. 

[Cameron Highlander]

7 hours ago, LeeF said:

Only the people who set and manage his KPIs will know whether he is value for money. If his job is to deflect the attention from the owners by making negative comments on their behalf then he is quids in

You are assuming here that the people who set and manage his KPI's know just how to do so, and what a KPI is.

[Adelaide Tiger]

20 hours ago, Dave T said:

I think we can only truly judge him at the end of this upcoming period. 

He should be judged on the new TV deal, commercial/sponsorship income at that time, and any movement on the private investment. 

I also think there is a piece to be done on strategy/structure. 

We shouldn't underestimate how challenging this year has been though for a unit that is pretty much a promotional arm for a comp. They can't promote and sell games to people, sponsorship funding will be very very tight and nobody knows what is happening one week from the next. 

I'd like far more visibility from him though, and some of his negativity on things like TWP isn't fitting for his role. 

Agree with what you say.

My one addition would be that the current situation has provided Elstone with an one-off unique opportunity to develop and put forward a 5-10 year strategy for SL that the game sticks to and is based upon the good of the game and not the self interest of clubs.

[Mushy]

To be clear there is no strategy and no vision. Elstone is appointed by super league to look after the existing clubs and it’s hard to see him recommending anything game changing in that context. I feel his role is more task based - looking for as good a tv deal as we can get and maybe getting the clubs a one off injection of cash (that will of course disappear like all the rest). 
 

If there were a plan I imagine it would be all about survival, which in the long term probably means a managed decline as we lose further ground to rival sports. 
 

Maybe things like Toronto aren’t a good idea for super league - but for me the sad reality is there’s nothing else potentially exciting that might move the game on, which is probably fuelling my potentially delusional hope for them and North America to be a success. There will never be enough money with the current mindset to do anything different - every single club will spend whatever is available and nothing will ever go into strategic development of the sport in the UK with the stupid set up we have currently. 

I’d love to be proven wrong on this and hope that I do get to see some exciting vision for the sport soon. In the interim I’ll keep watching and enjoying the game and dreaming of exciting ventures that someone else will fund. 

[Eddie]

18 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

He led Everton into decline. I remain completely unconvinced of his value to SL and RL in general. 

Agree with your second sentence but I don’t think he made Everton any worse, by enlarge they’ve been awful since the early 90s. 

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Agree with what you say.

My one addition would be that the current situation has provided Elstone with an one-off unique opportunity to develop and put forward a 5-10 year strategy for SL that the game sticks to and is based upon the good of the game and not the self interest of clubs.

"5-10 year strategy for SL "

This is Rugby league we are talking about.

 

[JohnM]

I guess if anyone is really interested rather than just denigrating him., they could always ask him. 

A bit of old background here:https://www.accountancyage.com/2004/11/30/deloittes-robert-elstone-the-boy-done-good/

[Mushy]

I worked with him on Everton’s new stadium development. Whilst he came across as a lovely bloke and a genuine league lover, I don’t think the club were disappointed to see him go. 

[Hela Wigmen]

12 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Elstone can’t see what Toronto bring to Super League, this shows how little vision and ambition he has for the sport. 

So, what you’re saying is Elstone couldn’t see what Toronto in their guise bought to Super League, for them to disappear a few months later? Some would say he was right to be suspicious of that Toronto entity. 

[Eddie]

7 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

So, what you’re saying is Elstone couldn’t see what Toronto in their guise bought to Super League, for them to disappear a few months later? Some would say he was right to be suspicious of that Toronto entity. 

If you predicted the global pandemic and lockdown back in November last year then hats off to you, but I don’t think anybody else did so what they thought of Toronto then isn’t relevant to what happened later. 

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

If you predicted the global pandemic and lockdown back in November last year then hats off to you, but I don’t think anybody else did so what they thought of Toronto then isn’t relevant to what happened later. 

It’s unsurprising to see you’ve missed the point, again. 

The scepticism of Toronto from Elstone has proven to have been warranted with Racist Dave setting off into the sunset leaving people without what’s owed to them. There was many an issue pre-Super League between Toronto and who they owed money to, which resulted in court cases and public mud slinging. The alarm bells were certainly ringing then and become more prominent from their promotion right through to their pulling out of Super League. 

[Eddie]

8 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

It’s unsurprising to see you’ve missed the point, again. 

The scepticism of Toronto from Elstone has proven to have been warranted with Racist Dave setting off into the sunset leaving people without what’s owed to them. There was many an issue pre-Super League between Toronto and who they owed money to, which resulted in court cases and public mud slinging. The alarm bells were certainly ringing then and become more prominent from their promotion right through to their pulling out of Super League. 

The point is, that if the pandemic hadn’t happened Toronto would have played the full season, may have got relegated and may have stayed up but regardless anyone who blames them pulling out on anything but Covid is being ridiculous.