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Macclesfield Town FC-Could we see the same happen in RL to some of our clubs?


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4 hours ago, yipyee said:

On here they think RL is immune and cant die like so many football clubs have.

Soccer is dying in the uk but the sucsess of the EPL masks it. Participation numbers are down but the rise of 5 a side again masks this. Old people having a kick around after work or people from other sports having a mess about is certaintly not growth

A sport with 92 pro clubs and hundreds of senior clubs outside the pro ranks is "dying" because participation numbers are down a bit????  That's a bit melodramatic I'd say.

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1 hour ago, JohnM said:

Many charities, clubs etc would not exist without unpaid volunteers. I know, because I am Treesurer of one. Nor would the RNLI, nor would IAM Roadsmart, etc. They are only "viable" because of a huge donation from so many workers. No different to  huge donation from one person. 

If all clubs had to pay all workers the living wage rate, they would all go out of business. 

One difference though, surely. If one rich person walks away - no club may be the result. If one volunteer walks away the slack gets taken up in most cases.

Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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30 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

No, nor are any clubs viable without TV money either but that's how sport is run, in any other area of life it would be regarded as being built on foundations of quicksand, always running to stop from sinking, as we have seen with the Covoid crisis there's no slack to cope with the unexpected be it soccer, racing motor sports or RL they all need to fulfil their obligations to their paymaster's.

Very good point 

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4 hours ago, JohnM said:

IIRC, no clubs have ever been financially viable (what does that mean exactly?)they eothr rely on owners who lend them money when no bank would ever touch them. Or they rely on unpaid volunteers. 

Or oil rich countries 😉

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3 hours ago, JohnM said:

Many charities, clubs etc would not exist without unpaid volunteers. I know, because I am Treesurer of one. Nor would the RNLI, nor would IAM Roadsmart, etc. They are only "viable" because of a huge donation from so many workers. No different to  huge donation from one person. 

If all clubs had to pay all workers the living wage rate, they would all go out of business. 

Indeed , some charities rely on Oil rich countries to support them , they then masquerade as football teams 😉

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2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

A sport with 92 pro clubs and hundreds of senior clubs outside the pro ranks is "dying" because participation numbers are down a bit????  That's a bit melodramatic I'd say.

I think people often think the sport has to be as they grew up with it.

Adult participation numbers are collapsing. We can bemoan and fail, or adapt. The future will probably see sport be more like North America, where serious sports are played mainly by kids and a few elite athletes with most people dropping team sport as they grow up.

That is a shame. It is also inevitable.

The UK is unusual in having as many pro soccer clubs as it does. The third rung has no business being full time.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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4 hours ago, Eddie said:

All sports rely on rich owners, RL is no different to football or Union in that respect. 

I think in football, Rangers and Celtic show where football really is without mega TV deals, sponsorship and rich owners.

They get 50k or 60k a week in their stadiums and compaired to the English top league clubs who get similar crowds. Those 2 Scottish clubs pay their top players around £25 to £30k a week - a direct comparison with say Liverpool shows they pay their top players £100k to £150k+ a week - all that extra cash is basically from their TV and sponsorship deals.

Similar to NRL v SL on a smaller scale??

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32 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I think people often think the sport has to be as they grew up with it.

Adult participation numbers are collapsing. We can bemoan and fail, or adapt. The future will probably see sport be more like North America, where serious sports are played mainly by kids and a few elite athletes with most people dropping team sport as they grow up.

That is a shame. It is also inevitable.

The UK is unusual in having as many pro soccer clubs as it does. The third rung has no business being full time.

The football league can not sustain 92 pro clubs just as in rl we probably have too many pro clubs 

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7 hours ago, Robthegasman said:

No but living in Manchester and in the past having watched the local news on BBC or ITV I do know that they have had a history of financial issues and yes some mismanagement.

Indeed a former chairman there tragically committed suicide and if my mind serves me right it turned out there were financial difficulties there.It seems that financial issues have been a problem for a long time there.

The situations aren’t comparable at all. 
 

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7 hours ago, yipyee said:

On here they think RL is immune and cant die like so many football clubs have.

Soccer is dying in the uk but the sucsess of the EPL masks it. Participation numbers are down but the rise of 5 a side again masks this. Old people having a kick around after work or people from other sports having a mess about is certaintly not growth

Every sport has issues it needs to deal with, including football, but soccer is absolutely NOT dying in the UK. 

If soccer is dying then every other UK sport must already be dead. 

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1 hour ago, Mr Frisky said:

I think in football, Rangers and Celtic show where football really is without mega TV deals, sponsorship and rich owners.

They get 50k or 60k a week in their stadiums and compaired to the English top league clubs who get similar crowds. Those 2 Scottish clubs pay their top players around £25 to £30k a week - a direct comparison with say Liverpool shows they pay their top players £100k to £150k+ a week - all that extra cash is basically from their TV and sponsorship deals.

Similar to NRL v SL on a smaller scale??

Indeed. It’s a sad day when the likes of West Brom (or whoever is at the bottom of the premier league) can buy the best players from European Giants like the Old Firm, Benfica, Marseille, Anderlecht etc; just because they don’t get anywhere near as much tv money. 

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8 hours ago, JohnM said:

Do they pay their volunteers? 

Never when I was involved with either club, in fact it cost volunteers money, if only in travel costs and time spent.

My wife complains I selfishly stop her fulfilling her true ambition -

she really wants to be a rich widow

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21 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Exactly. Volunteers invest their own time, money etc in running clubs that otherwise would not exist. Just like the pro clubs, where the owners invest their own time, money etc in clubs that would not otherwise exist. 

Clubs being the operative word. 

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7 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

One difference though, surely. If one rich person walks away - no club may be the result. If one volunteer walks away the slack gets taken up in most cases.

Good point and true enough. Is there a list of rich people who have walked away from clubs in our game though. If it were me. I'd hang around long enough to get my money out. But then, I'm not rich and nor I suspect are most rugby league club owners. 

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9 hours ago, Big Picture said:

A sport with 92 pro clubs and hundreds of senior clubs outside the pro ranks is "dying" because participation numbers are down a bit????  That's a bit melodramatic I'd say.

You woyld be surprised, dont believe everything you are told!

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5 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

Every sport has issues it needs to deal with, including football, but soccer is absolutely NOT dying in the UK. 

If soccer is dying then every other UK sport must already be dead. 

Haha why? Some sports grow as others shrink. Most sports are starting to struggle with participation numbers at OA level.

Football has peaked, you go back to the early 90s and tell everyone that Italian football will crash and no one would believe you.

Football at grass roots is in trouble.

The FA relise this and was prepared to sell wembley to prop up grass roots.

Grass roots is on the decline and age old clubs have started to disappear.

The fan base that actually pay to attend games is ageing and the money men are only in it for profit. I think from memory the average age of the ST holder at old trafford is 57 and City cant sell their ticketd to watch one of the greatest teams and manager to grace the prem.

The warnings are there at grass root level and once the interest starts to wane there will be an abandement from the money men which will leave tbe proffessional game in trouble.

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5 hours ago, Eddie said:

Indeed. It’s a sad day when the likes of West Brom (or whoever is at the bottom of the premier league) can buy the best players from European Giants like the Old Firm, Benfica, Marseille, Anderlecht etc; just because they don’t get anywhere near as much tv money. 

Hardly a role call of european giants there is it !

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2 hours ago, yipyee said:

Hardly a role call of european giants there is it !

You are a very entertaining contributor.

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7 hours ago, JohnM said:

Good point and true enough. Is there a list of rich people who have walked away from clubs in our game though. If it were me. I'd hang around long enough to get my money out. But then, I'm not rich and nor I suspect are most rugby league club owners. 

You'd hang around long enough to get your money out ? 🤔

The longer you ' hang around ' the more it costs you 

I paid £ 22,500 for 3 shares in a RL club , I sold them for £ 1,500 a few years later , that was £ 1,499.99 more than they were worth 

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21 hours ago, Cardypaul said:

The big problem in the game is an over reliance on rich owners, particularly at SL level with clubs spending money they just don’t have. This is fine until something happens to the rich owner then the clubs in trouble. In my opinion clubs need to be built around sustainable business plans and need to look at ways to generate more money through the business rather than the owners which would lessen the chance of failure. That being said I do appreciate that with Covid-19 clubs probably have had to rely on their owners which is right under the circumstances.

This is a good point.  What we need is poor owners.

In fact I suggest destitute owners.

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