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Robthegasman

Macclesfield Town FC-Could we see the same happen in RL to some of our clubs?

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14 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

I think in football, Rangers and Celtic show where football really is without mega TV deals, sponsorship and rich owners.

They get 50k or 60k a week in their stadiums and compaired to the English top league clubs who get similar crowds. Those 2 Scottish clubs pay their top players around £25 to £30k a week - a direct comparison with say Liverpool shows they pay their top players £100k to £150k+ a week - all that extra cash is basically from their TV and sponsorship deals.

Similar to NRL v SL on a smaller scale??

I do find it rather charming that footballers are paid per week, like they still think in the era of maximum salary.

A well off (not necessarily a good) footballer is paid 7 million pounds a year. Mind you some laughable comedians get that, and more... just for shouting very loudly.

At least rugby players admit to being paid per year.

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36 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

I do find it rather charming that footballers are paid per week, like they still think in the era of maximum salary.

A well off (not necessarily a good) footballer is paid 7 million pounds a year. Mind you some laughable comedians get that, and more... just for shouting very loudly.

At least rugby players admit to being paid per year.

Most players including footballers are paid per month, its an outdated thing to quote per week as not many people are paid per week anymore and dates back to when players picked up a match fee

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15 hours ago, Bob8 said:

Adult participation numbers are collapsing. We can bemoan and fail, or adapt. The future will probably see sport be more like North America, where serious sports are played mainly by kids and a few elite athletes with most people dropping team sport as they grow up.

That is probably a very astute observation. When would you think peak participation is ?  It is probably quite young and getting younger.

So how do we adapt to this ? With the bulk of kids dropping out round 12-13, teams then having to travel further to find opponents.

I wonder if it could reach the stage where sporting organisations have to pay kids to play. I am not talking millions of course.

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43 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Most players including footballers are paid per month, its an outdated thing to quote per week as not many people are paid per week anymore and dates back to when players picked up a match fee

Yes.  I am aware the income is paid monthly.  I think your words "quote per week" was more accurate for what I was driving at.

In fact the likes of Ronaldo are paid more than a million a week.  (for what its worth, and that's not a lot, I've had my photo taken in front of his statue in Funchal.)

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1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Not what I was saying at all boss. 

Can you eloborate/remind me, please. 

Perhaps, as this seems now to be more about soccer than rugby, it should continue on AOB. 


Four legs good - two legs bad

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58 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

That is probably a very astute observation. When would you think peak participation is ?  It is probably quite young and getting younger.

So how do we adapt to this ? With the bulk of kids dropping out round 12-13, teams then having to travel further to find opponents.

I wonder if it could reach the stage where sporting organisations have to pay kids to play. I am not talking millions of course.

I think we see what happens in the USA. Generally, what they do there arrives here.

And that means fewer pro-clubs, and the ones that remain have to be bigger. And, we do not have room in the UK for that many big clubs.

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

That is probably a very astute observation. When would you think peak participation is ?  It is probably quite young and getting younger.

So how do we adapt to this ? With the bulk of kids dropping out round 12-13, teams then having to travel further to find opponents.

I wonder if it could reach the stage where sporting organisations have to pay kids to play. I am not talking millions of course.

Adaption is to use schools,  colleges and university's to maintain participation.

If there were incentives for schools to participate in leagues and competitions then more would play across a wider area.

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16 hours ago, JohnM said:

Good point and true enough. Is there a list of rich people who have walked away from clubs in our game though. If it were me. I'd hang around long enough to get my money out. But then, I'm not rich and nor I suspect are most rugby league club owners. 

Do you think the Man City owners will get their money back ? 

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11 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Do you think the Man City owners will get their money back ? 

Given they are the soft power projection of a foreign state, I think they have different priorities.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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5 hours ago, The Rocket said:

That is probably a very astute observation. When would you think peak participation is ?  It is probably quite young and getting younger.

So how do we adapt to this ? With the bulk of kids dropping out round 12-13, teams then having to travel further to find opponents.

I wonder if it could reach the stage where sporting organisations have to pay kids to play. I am not talking millions of course.

I imagine youth participation numbers dropping is only a problem for the national team being able to have a deeper pool when fielding a competitive team. As far as the EFL goes, England will always have the benefit of having the world as its players pool. As someone mentioned earlier, there's players leaving clubs that regularly compete for spots in Europe to play for perpetual midtable clubs in the Premier League, and with all the pro clubs, a player from Italy who other wise would be on a semi-pro  contract in Serie C can get a pro contract at a League 1 club.

Its the same thing we have in the US, even if baseball youth numbers keep declining that just opens up more spots for Asian and Latin players while getting MLB to invest more in places like Australia and the Netherlands who already have shown they are capable of producing MLB caliber players with their limited means. Whereas if the footabll youth numbers were to drastically decline, well the NFL is screwed since no one else plays the sport.

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7 hours ago, Eddie said:

It was, before TV money took over, which is exactly my point. 

Do you watch sport on TV?

Just asking.


Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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7 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

I do find it rather charming that footballers are paid per week, like they still think in the era of maximum salary.

A well off (not necessarily a good) footballer is paid 7 million pounds a year. Mind you some laughable comedians get that, and more... just for shouting very loudly.

At least rugby players admit to being paid per year.

Toronto players don't.

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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1 minute ago, Eddie said:

Yes, why?

That's where the TV money comes from. We are all a part of this problem.


Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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43 minutes ago, emesssea said:

Its the same thing we have in the US, even if baseball youth numbers keep declining that just opens up more spots for Asian and Latin players while getting MLB to invest more in places like Australia and the Netherlands who already have shown they are capable of producing MLB caliber players with their limited means. Whereas if the footabll youth numbers were to drastically decline, well the NFL is screwed since no one else plays the sport.

With regard to American Football (NFL), there was much talk on here recently of NFL expansion into Europe, I think the figure of $40m over the last 20 years was mentioned. Not a lot to show for it as far as participation goes but quite healthy and growing TV audiences and sell-out crowds when played here.

What struck me about the whole thing though was the similarity to Rugby Leagues(RL) efforts at expansion. That might sound strange straight off the bat, but the point I`m making is that NFL like RL is a  physically demanding sport  where people get hurt. It is not the an easy sport to get people to play, I would even say that NFL would be even harder to get people to play because of the length of the game, equipment and numbers involved to field a team.

Which as you say leads to the interesting predicament of more money flowing into the game through foreign Broadcast deals however  participation numbers declining in traditional areas due to parents not wanting their children to play a sport  where there is any chance of them getting injured. Which is very much associated with rising educational levels and income.

If you are American you may not like me saying this but I have never really taken NFL serious as a competitor to the two Rugby codes. Because I think that will be even harder to engage new players into the playing pool as traditional areas contract. You may have seen me banging on in the TouchTag Rugby League TTRL thread about this issue for RL.

In fact in previous threads I have stated that there is an inherent human desire to witness physical violence that is satisfied by these three codes that one day next to soccer, which doesn`t satisfy this need, will probably dominate team sports worldwide. Being a Rugby League fan I of course hope that it is our code. However like NFL where are the players going to come from.

 

 

Edited by The Rocket
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10 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

That's where the TV money comes from. We are all a part of this problem.

I only got Sky Sports three weeks ago (via Now TV) for the RL and NFL, and I only got it because there was an offer where it was £20 a month for 9 months. I’ve always given it a miss because I don’t want to fund the extravagance of the premier league, which is basically what you’re paying for, however I thought £20 was decent value for what I want it for. 
 

Regardless though, I do think European football has been ruined somewhat by premier league money, and think that’s a real shame. 

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On 20/09/2020 at 13:10, Mr Frisky said:

I think in football, Rangers and Celtic show where football really is without mega TV deals, sponsorship and rich owners.

They get 50k or 60k a week in their stadiums and compaired to the English top league clubs who get similar crowds. Those 2 Scottish clubs pay their top players around £25 to £30k a week - a direct comparison with say Liverpool shows they pay their top players £100k to £150k+ a week - all that extra cash is basically from their TV and sponsorship deals.

Similar to NRL v SL on a smaller scale??

At least those leagues are competitive. The gap in Scottish Soccer between the top 2 and the bottom half-dozen is the size of the Grand Canyon. 

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4 hours ago, The Rocket said:

With regard to American Football (NFL), there was much talk on here recently of NFL expansion into Europe, I think the figure of $40m over the last 20 years was mentioned. Not a lot to show for it as far as participation goes but quite healthy and growing TV audiences and sell-out crowds when played here.

What struck me about the whole thing though was the similarity to Rugby Leagues(RL) efforts at expansion. That might sound strange straight off the bat, but the point I`m making is that NFL like RL is a  physically demanding sport  where people get hurt. It is not the an easy sport to get people to play, I would even say that NFL would be even harder to get people to play because of the length of the game, equipment and numbers involved to field a team.

Which as you say leads to the interesting predicament of more money flowing into the game through foreign Broadcast deals however  participation numbers declining in traditional areas due to parents not wanting their children to play a sport  where there is any chance of them getting injured. Which is very much associated with rising educational levels and income.

If you are American you may not like me saying this but I have never really taken NFL serious as a competitor to the two Rugby codes. Because I think that will be even harder to engage new players into the playing pool as traditional areas contract. You may have seen me banging on in the TouchTag Rugby League TTRL thread about this issue for RL.

In fact in previous threads I have stated that there is an inherent human desire to witness physical violence that is satisfied by these three codes that one day next to soccer, which doesn`t satisfy this need, will probably dominate team sports worldwide. Being a Rugby League fan I of course hope that it is our code. However like NFL where are the players going to come from.

 

 

I have always heard it said that in the future the most popular sports worldwide will be the 'shorts sports' - soccer, rugby, basketball - that allow for some physical contact, which by-and-large rules out others like field hockey and track and field.

Shorts sports also tend to be the easiest to play, needing the least specialized equipment, and thus cheaper, which broadens their appeal and ensures a steady influx of kids, the lifeblood of any sport.

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5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Given they are the soft power projection of a foreign state, I think they have different priorities.

Not the point being made , thanks for the contribution 

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20 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Not the point being made , thanks for the contribution 

They’re not investing to make a return therefore it is irrelevant if they do. Therefore asking if they’re going to is the working definition of pointless.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

They’re not investing to make a return therefore it is irrelevant if they do. Therefore asking if they’re going to is the working definition of pointless.

Woosh

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17 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Woosh

Great seashell impersonation.

I apologise if I missed your point.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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7 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 

If you are American you may not like me saying this but I have never really taken NFL serious as a competitor to the two Rugby codes. Because I think that will be even harder to engage new players into the playing pool as traditional areas contract. You may have seen me banging on in the TouchTag Rugby League TTRL thread about this issue for RL.

In fact in previous threads I have stated that there is an inherent human desire to witness physical violence that is satisfied by these three codes that one day next to soccer, which doesn`t satisfy this need, will probably dominate team sports worldwide. Being a Rugby League fan I of course hope that it is our code. However like NFL where are the players going to come from.

 

 

As an American that doesn't bother me for the main fact that I don't care for our football code. I agree that the NFL isn't a serious competitor to rugby league and vice versa, nor do they need to be. It seems that a fair amount of NRL/Super League fans also have their NFL team, and if rugby league was more accessible in the US, I'd imagine NFL fans would have their favorite league team.

I'm going to have to disagree with your last point. Every country has had well over a 100 years to form their sporting culture and almost all of them have chosen soccer as their preferred football code. If England with its 50 million citizens can have three professional football codes surely Germany and its 80 million citizens could have a second code, but Germany, with the second highest attedance in any football code, has no desire for any other code. I believe France's Top14 is the richest Union competition (and maybe richer than the NRL?) while Ligue 1 is miles behind the other soccer leagues and before PSG's money came along all the elite french players played abroad, and yet soccer is well ahead of rugby in terms of popularity. 

Never say never, but any other football code to knock off soccer in any of these countries its going to take a major shift that happens over several generations, and I don't see that happening in anyone's lifetime who is currently alive.

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On 20/09/2020 at 18:36, Mr Plow said:

The football league can not sustain 92 pro clubs just as in rl we probably have too many pro clubs 

There maybe 92 pro clubs in the top for leagues but there are many more full time clubs outside of that. 

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