Fri 9 Oct: SL: Warrington Wolves v Wigan Warriors KO 7.45pm (Sky)

[Clogiron]

Wigan hung in there but Wire failed to make anything of their possession in the pies half, for all their offloads and player's like Ratchford, Widdop, Austin their attack is blunt beyond belief, Wigan made the most of what they got and put on simple plays for their tries, good game.

[Padge]

Enjoyable game and if Wigan had lost there would have been no complaints here.

 

[Rupert Prince]

Austin faded in the last 15 mins 2 weeks running.  Fair doos, he is a good player, but maybe these days he does not have as much in the tank as he used to.  But equally Wire generally faded and lets be fair with Wigan, they hung in.  

And Wigan always looked dangerous on the edge, less so up the middle.

Fair comments from Brown on TV.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Clogiron said:

Wigan hung in there but Wire failed to make anything of their possession in the pies half, for all their offloads and player's like Ratchford, Widdop, Austin their attack is blunt beyond belief, Wigan made the most of what they got and put on simple plays for their tries, good game.

We do 80 to 90% of our stuff brilliantly, and then get within 30m and are simply happy to get to the 5th and float a kick over. 

It's a common feature of our performances. 

[dkw]

Watching Ratchford Interview I now know why it's so hard to tackle him, his nose goes the opposite way to the rest of him, confuses defenders. 

[Rupert Prince]

8 minutes ago, dkw said:

He needs to let him of the leash too, stop making him play to such a structured game. Look at the young uns at Hull, cas etc, they are definitely allowed to play a much more off the cuff game. 

Wire played off the cuff until the cows came home, but came to nothing.

Does the "off the cuff" work?

[GUBRATS]

Wigans best player of the last decade scores the winning try , the occasional nasty slip from Liam , but every club in SL ( and he'd have ripped the NRL ) wish they had him in their side , and I'm a Leyther 

[Rupert Prince]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Wigans best player of the last decade scores the winning try , the occasional nasty slip from Liam , but every club in SL ( and he'd have ripped the NRL ) wish they had him in their side , and I'm a Leyther 

I've said it before, if fit (lets hope) he must be first on Wanes team sheet.

[EagleEyePie]

I don't think Wire were great, and they messed up a few good chances. They had a huge territorial advantage in the first half and didn't make the most of it and that must be frustrating for them.

It was a similar situation for Wigan - just like the Leeds game we were being penned in our own half most of the time. The difference, mostly coming in the second half, was that we actually decided to attack from deep. That seems to be where we're most dangerous. It's how we managed to beat Catalans when their big pack was storming down the middle, it's how we beat Leeds in the league when their pack was on top. It's frustrating that Lam seems to be going for a small pack down the middle, but if that's the way he wants to go then we need to be getting the ball wide and attack.

A big difference for me was the injuries to our outside backs meant Isa at centre and that in turn meant Farrell played on the left edge for the whole game. It's been driving me crazy that Lam was moving him to the middle of the field after 20 to bring on Greenwood and keeping him there for the rest of games. He's so dangerous out wide that it's madness not to play him there. One of the best things about him is that his fitness levels are so good that when teams are tiring he's so full of running. I've no idea if anyone keeps any stats on these things but I'm willing to bet Farrell's try scoring record in the last 20 minutes of games will be very impressive. He's just so full of running that he can get on the outside of a tired defender and run that crucial line.

Credit also must go to Harry Smith. It was a smart pass but he'd been having a positive impact on play as soon as he came on. His kicking game is much better than Hastings or Leuluai and he reads the game well. We need to see more of him. 

[WN83]

Was well off in my prediction of a comfortable Wire win. We had to hang in there for huge spells and I’m not convinced Lam coaches the side to play to any sort of game plan but the effort and desire was massive. 
 

Agree fully with the difference Harry Smith made. He needs to be given more of a central role IMO. It’s funny that a coach in Lam that seems prepared to give youth its chance and was a halfback himself, seems to be most nervous about playing a young half, who is arguably the most talented of all the youngsters at the club. 

[Rupert Prince]

3 minutes ago, EagleEyePie said:

I don't think Wire were great, and they messed up a few good chances. They had a huge territorial advantage in the first half and didn't make the most of it and that must be frustrating for them.

It was a similar situation for Wigan - just like the Leeds game we were being penned in our own half most of the time. The difference, mostly coming in the second half, was that we actually decided to attack from deep. That seems to be where we're most dangerous. It's how we managed to beat Catalans when their big pack was storming down the middle, it's how we beat Leeds in the league when their pack was on top. It's frustrating that Lam seems to be going for a small pack down the middle, but if that's the way he wants to go then we need to be getting the ball wide and attack.

A big difference for me was the injuries to our outside backs meant Isa at centre and that in turn meant Farrell played on the left edge for the whole game. It's been driving me crazy that Lam was moving him to the middle of the field after 20 to bring on Greenwood and keeping him there for the rest of games. He's so dangerous out wide that it's madness not to play him there. One of the best things about him is that his fitness levels are so good that when teams are tiring he's so full of running. I've no idea if anyone keeps any stats on these things but I'm willing to bet Farrell's try scoring record in the last 20 minutes of games will be very impressive. He's just so full of running that he can get on the outside of a tired defender and run that crucial line.

Credit also must go to Harry Smith. It was a smart pass but he'd been having a positive impact on play as soon as he came on. His kicking game is much better than Hastings or Leuluai and he reads the game well. We need to see more of him. 

Smith has a real long kick.  Does he kick goals?  Fair doos to Hardaker and French.   We miss Gildart.  Fair doos to all Wigan players for surviving and being,  well ... dominant in the last 15 mins.  But they cannot keep gifting 20 mins in their own 10 and expect to win games.

[Padge]

38 minutes ago, WN83 said:

Was well off in my prediction of a comfortable Wire win. We had to hang in there for huge spells and I’m not convinced Lam coaches the side to play to any sort of game plan but the effort and desire was massive. 
 

Agree fully with the difference Harry Smith made. He needs to be given more of a central role IMO. It’s funny that a coach in Lam that seems prepared to give youth its chance and was a halfback himself, seems to be most nervous about playing a young half, who is arguably the most talented of all the youngsters at the club. 

Maybe Lam knows Wigan are in for a disappointing season and he is protecting Smith from getting any blame just as he is breaking into the first team.

Its easy to throw a kid in, its hard to get them stopped from being blamed for others deficiencies.

I would sooner caution than throw a lot of responsibility on him too soon.

Letting him come on and have an effect will build his confidence, putting him in as the main player in a shambles can only knock his confidence.

 

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, Padge said:

Maybe Lam knows Wigan are in for a disappointing season and he is protecting Smith from getting any blame just as he is breaking into the first team.

Its easy to throw a kid in, its hard to get them stopped from being blamed for others deficiencies.

I would sooner caution than throw a lot of responsibility on him too soon.

Letting him come on and have an effect will build his confidence, putting him in as the main player in a shambles can only knock his confidence.

 

The lad has been held back enough,he’s 20 and has shown he can flourish at this level.

Did Lam know it was going to be a disappointing season a few weeks ago when the team was still in the cup & sitting top of the comp.

[bamfordsbeans]

I thought the game summed up when it matters most in SL,  Wigan win and Warrington lose.

Can only see Saints or Wigan winning it this year.

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, bamfordsbeans said:

I thought the game summed up when it matters most in SL,  Wigan win and Warrington lose.

Can only see Saints or Wigan winning it this year.

The worry for Warrington is that the winning streak has masked a major issue with the team. Prior to lockdown we had some terrible performances, and last nights game was a carbon copy of last week vs Salford. And indeed the game before versus Salford which had different players. 

Three games on the bounce where we have taken a healthy lead and lost in the dying stages because of the style. We were dominating all of them but couldn't put teams away. It's cultural. 

[Rupert Prince]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

The worry for Warrington is that the winning streak has masked a major issue with the team. Prior to lockdown we had some terrible performances, and last nights game was a carbon copy of last week vs Salford. And indeed the game before versus Salford which had different players. 

Three games on the bounce where we have taken a healthy lead and lost in the dying stages because of the style. We were dominating all of them but couldn't put teams away. It's cultural. 

I think Warrington have a good pack with some good playmakers and some quick players.  So it will take a good team to beat them.  Its a pity there is no top 5 this year and i think there is still mileage in Warrington making the top 4.

I'm obviously not a Wire fan but they are still in with as good a shout as anyone, they were close on Friday.

[getdownmonkeyman]

5 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

I think Warrington have a good pack with some good playmakers and some quick players.  So it will take a good team to beat them.  Its a pity there is no top 5 this year and i think there is still mileage in Warrington making the top 4.

I'm obviously not a Wire fan but they are still in with as good a shout as anyone, they were close on Friday.

That's the problem. When they get close, they run out of ideas!

[Rupert Prince]

11 minutes ago, getdownmonkeyman said:

That's the problem. When they get close, they run out of ideas!

Im glad Wigan won, and were worth it.  But at times they were not that smart, so i am not going to look down on Warrington, we were far from perfect.

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, getdownmonkeyman said:

That's the problem. When they get close, they run out of ideas!

Yup. I made the point that about 80% of our play is great, and that is reflective of the 80m from our line to the opposition 20m.

[M j M]

Is Price under pressure if Warrington don't win anything this year?

[Dave T]

11 minutes ago, M j M said:

Is Price under pressure if Warrington don't win anything this year?

I've made my feelings on price known many times, and I feel that the win at Wembley last year is the reason he is still in the job. 

We have just lost in the cup semis in poor style (no disrespect to Salford but we were in a strong position), and are now sitting outside the playoff spots. 

I've been enjoying this year which has been a bonus for me, but the last couple of games has brought us back down to earth with a bang. It's been boring. 

[Davo5]

32 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I've made my feelings on price known many times, and I feel that the win at Wembley last year is the reason he is still in the job. 

We have just lost in the cup semis in poor style (no disrespect to Salford but we were in a strong position), and are now sitting outside the playoff spots. 

I've been enjoying this year which has been a bonus for me, but the last couple of games has brought us back down to earth with a bang. It's been boring. 

Boring ? In what way,I generally enjoy watching Warrington and their style of play,they really aren’t far off being a premiership winning side.

[WN83]

19 hours ago, Padge said:

Maybe Lam knows Wigan are in for a disappointing season and he is protecting Smith from getting any blame just as he is breaking into the first team.

Its easy to throw a kid in, its hard to get them stopped from being blamed for others deficiencies.

I would sooner caution than throw a lot of responsibility on him too soon.

Letting him come on and have an effect will build his confidence, putting him in as the main player in a shambles can only knock his confidence.

 

He’s a worse coach than I feared if he actively thinks were in for a bad end to the season and is therefore protecting players. Even if nobody else believes we can do anything, surely Lam still thinks we can or else he’s in the wrong job. 
 

I don’t think we should throw Smith in as a starter week in week out just yet but I’m sure he’s worth more than 20 minutes at the end of a game. I’d be looking at bringing him on after half an hour or so, once the forward battle has settled a little and let him run our kicking game and then rotate the 9 spot between Powell and Leuluai. As it is we’re giving him 20 minutes and using Hastings at hooker rather than Tommy Leuluai. It’s baffling to say the least. Tommy Leuluai has been a great player for us but his kicking skills are diabolical. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

Boring ? In what way,I generally enjoy watching Warrington and their style of play,they really aren’t far off being a premiership winning side.

We have a lot of exciting class players, but we have an ongoing tendency to go into our shell and play a safe set and drift a kick to the corner or stick a bomb up. 

If some of the off the cuff stuff sticks from 50m out we can score and do well and win games, but if we have to play within the opposition 20m zone we are generally toothless. Even last night we scored a penalty try off a great piece of skill from Ratch and then in your 20m the only score was from Hill going straight at the line. 

Tactically and selection-wise Price has demonstrated his weakness in the last 2 weeks. 

[Rupert Prince]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

Yup. I made the point that about 80% of our play is great, and that is reflective of the 80m from our line to the opposition 20m.

The modern game is all about what happens in the last 10m.  In that sense I'm glad Wigan are not at brilliant in the middle 80.