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Rangi Chase joins West Wales Raiders


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9 hours ago, DEANO said:

If only. Point is wales don’t want rl. Sorry but true

As a wise man said, sometime you have to take a step backwards to move forward.

All the hard work that Wales has faced in recent years is maybe now building to something.

And, if nothing else, the headlines are eye catching.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 hours ago, Robin Evans said:

His drop off in form was staggering.

Played at Fev in the cup in 2012. Breaking Tangi Ropati's jaw was his only significant contribution to that game. He was bloody awful and the slide continued.

A character with flaws.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, get Rangi Chase tackles Tangi Ropati on You Tube and see one of the worst challenges in recent years.

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An immense talent, a maverick, that RL simply doesn’t capitalise enough on.

He’s one of the few (in fact only) RL players that I can remember having their own segment on Sky Sports News after a performance where he re-enacted what he did.

It was that that would inspire kids to pick up a rugby ball and want to emulate (and indeed watch).

For me the smart strategy for any RL authority would be trying to make the game more open like this (like it used to be), with a greater emphasis on flair and creativity, and cut down on the wrestle/stifling tactics imported from Australia. Brits are more flair based followers, Aussies more the biff. What’s popular in Aus doesn’t translate here. 

 

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5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

As a wise man said, sometime you have to take a step backwards to move forward.

All the hard work that Wales has faced in recent years is maybe now building to something.

And, if nothing else, the headlines are eye catching.

Unfortunately the only headlines will be in the north of England 

sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

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4 hours ago, DC77 said:

An immense talent, a maverick, that RL simply doesn’t capitalise enough on.

He’s one of the few (in fact only) RL players that I can remember having their own segment on Sky Sports News after a performance where he re-enacted what he did.

It was that that would inspire kids to pick up a rugby ball and want to emulate (and indeed watch).

For me the smart strategy for any RL authority would be trying to make the game more open like this (like it used to be), with a greater emphasis on flair and creativity, and cut down on the wrestle/stifling tactics imported from Australia. Brits are more flair based followers, Aussies more the biff. What’s popular in Aus doesn’t translate here. 

 

Do you watch any NRL or do you just like lazy stereotypes?  There's plenty of flair there without having to look too hard.  Just yesterday the Jordan Rapana try that was chalked off had me out of my seat and Clint Gutherson's magic ten minutes this morning was as good as anything I've seen.  

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"I'm a traditionalist and I don"t think you'd ever see me coaching an Australian national side!"  Lee Radford, RLW March 2016

Proud to be a member of the TRL woke claque

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The idea that Rugby League isn't viable in Wales is bunk. If we look at the three years that Crusaders had under licensing in SL (one in the south, then 2 in the north) They pulled in an average of about 3,500 - 4 ,000 in the south. The year after in Wrexham they got over 4600 and the final year, the one with admin and the owners pulling out (people for whom owning Wrexham AFC and Crusaders was all about stripping the land for sale) they still pulled in 3000 playing at a stadium way to big for them in the Racecourse Ground.

Outside of SL, NWC had a few 1000 plus attendances at the racecourse (remember, it is more difficult to get people to watch sport at these oversized arena as atmosphere is impossible) and now sadly play at an athletics track (again, being a mile away from the action makes watching sport immensely more unattractive).

The problem for Crusaders (I can't speak to South Wales) is not that the Welsh won't watch rugby league but is the same problem for so many RL teams (Swinton, Oldham, Rochdale etc). They lack a real home that can generate revenue and is built to watch the sport. Were Crusaders to get a 6,000 capacity ground with 3G pitch (i,e an asset they can sweat) I have every confidence they could be a viable Championship team with 2000 regularly (more for big games) and be a real home for Welsh Rugby League and Wales Internationals. In short, the problem for Rugby League in North Wales is the problem for rugby league in a dozen places... a lack of infrastructure. 

Edited by ShropshireBull
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11 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

The idea that Rugby League isn't viable in Wales is bunk. If we look at the three years that Crusaders had under licensing in SL (one in the south, then 2 in the north) They pulled in an average of about 3,500 - 4 ,000 in the south. The year after in Wrexham they got over 4600 and the final year, the one with admin and the owners pulling out (people for whom owning Wrexham AFC and Crusaders was all about stripping the land for sale) they still pulled in 3000 playing at a stadium way to big for them in the Racecourse Ground.

Outside of SL, NWC had a few 1000 plus attendances at the racecourse (remember, it is more difficult to get people to watch sport at these oversized arena as atmosphere is impossible) and now sadly play at an athletics track (again, being a mile away from the action makes watching sport immensely move unattractive).

The problem for Crusaders (I can't speak to South Wales) is not that the Welsh won't watch rugby league but is the same problem for so many RL teams (Swinton, Oldham, Rochdale etc). They lack a real home that can generate revenue and is built to watch the sport. Were Crusaders to get a 6,000 capacity ground with 3G pitch (i,e an asset they can sweat) I have every confidence they could be a viable Championship team with 2000 regularly (more for big games) and be a real home for Welsh Rugby League and Wales Internationals. In short, the problem for Rugby League in North Wales is the problem for rugby league in a dozen places... a lack of infrastructure. 

Totally agree with your post, in fact it was the one thing Toronto got really lucky with in that Lamport, although basic, was a very good venue to watch RL at, plus it was the right size to generate atmosphere. I feel slightly worried for Ottawa in that I feel the stadium will be so large that the game day experience will suffer unless it’s pretty full, and that will be extremely difficult to achieve unless in SL, a crowd of 5,000, although amazing for the lower leagues, will be lost in that stadium, whereas 5,000 at Toronto would still give a good atmosphere. I also feel that when Gateshead Thunder played at the International Stadium the venue was extremely offputting to first time and occasional fans as it was so difficult to generate any atmosphere with a few hundred fans in such a cavernous venue.

As you say, the fortunes of so many RL teams, both heartland and expansion, could be changed if they all had improved infrastructure, but sadly the money’s not there to provide it so I’m not sure where we go from here.

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13 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

Totally agree with your post, in fact it was the one thing Toronto got really lucky with in that Lamport, although basic, was a very good venue to watch RL at, plus it was the right size to generate atmosphere. I feel slightly worried for Ottawa in that I feel the stadium will be so large that the game day experience will suffer unless it’s pretty full, and that will be extremely difficult to achieve unless in SL, a crowd of 5,000, although amazing for the lower leagues, will be lost in that stadium, whereas 5,000 at Toronto would still give a good atmosphere. I also feel that when Gateshead Thunder played at the International Stadium the venue was extremely offputting to first time and occasional fans as it was so difficult to generate any atmosphere with a few hundred fans in such a cavernous venue.

As you say, the fortunes of so many RL teams, both heartland and expansion, could be changed if they all had improved infrastructure, but sadly the money’s not there to provide it so I’m not sure where we go from here.

100% old bear. Gateshead is a perfect example. People do not want to watch any sport in an atheltics track, the attendances of Gateshead FC are also the same. But let's say you could get Gateshead RLFC in a 4000 capacity ground with 3g (again, so they can generate revenue) and suddenly we have an entirely different proposition. 

Not just to fans, but sponsors. Inviting people to a 2000 in the racecourse ground and it's awful. Let's say you get a promotion game at NWC 6,000 home and it brings in 3000 with kids on the field before the game, great atmosphere and we suddenly have something we can market here. Same for Gateshead. Could you imagine if they had a nice cosy stadium that generates income, were let back in the system and pulled out Newcastle in the Challenge Cup? You'd be rammed. 

And yep, it's the money. I'll start playing the Euromillions to do my bit I suppose. As much as I want Bradford to do well, NWC would be a better investment for the game. Just a shame the RFL got Odsal instead of trying to build 'cosy clubs'. Maybe we should get a Euromillions Pool going. 

Edited by ShropshireBull
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26 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Not just to fans, but sponsors. 

Very true, my worry for Ottawa is that if they attract crowds of 4,000 in year 1 (which would be good for L1), it won’t look good in a stadium that holds 24,000+ and as a lot of potential sponsors will be first timers what impression does that give to them?

My eldest son plates university (gridiron) football. Their stadium has a capacity of 10,000, average crowd is around 6,000-7,000 and although there’s a running track the atmosphere is good because the stadium is appropriate for the size of crowd, now if the stadium was double the size then the atmosphere would be awful.

As you say shame the RFL got involved in Odsal when the reality is that the game needs a whole bunch of stadia with capacities of 6,000-12,000.

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7 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

Very true, my worry for Ottawa is that if they attract crowds of 4,000 in year 1 (which would be good for L1), it won’t look good in a stadium that holds 24,000+ and as a lot of potential sponsors will be first timers what impression does that give to them?

My eldest son plates university (gridiron) football. Their stadium has a capacity of 10,000, average crowd is around 6,000-7,000 and although there’s a running track the atmosphere is good because the stadium is appropriate for the size of crowd, now if the stadium was double the size then the atmosphere would be awful.

As you say shame the RFL got involved in Odsal when the reality is that the game needs a whole bunch of stadia with capacities of 6,000-12,000.

Yep, that huge stadium will be an albatross.

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1 hour ago, Oldbear said:

Very true, my worry for Ottawa is that if they attract crowds of 4,000 in year 1 (which would be good for L1), it won’t look good in a stadium that holds 24,000+ and as a lot of potential sponsors will be first timers what impression does that give to them?

My eldest son plates university (gridiron) football. Their stadium has a capacity of 10,000, average crowd is around 6,000-7,000 and although there’s a running track the atmosphere is good because the stadium is appropriate for the size of crowd, now if the stadium was double the size then the atmosphere would be awful.

As you say shame the RFL got involved in Odsal when the reality is that the game needs a whole bunch of stadia with capacities of 6,000-12,000.

4000 for league 1 would be incredible more than some sl clubs

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sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

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6 hours ago, latchford albion said:

Do you watch any NRL or do you just like lazy stereotypes?  There's plenty of flair there without having to look too hard.  Just yesterday the Jordan Rapana try that was chalked off had me out of my seat and Clint Gutherson's magic ten minutes this morning was as good as anything I've seen.  

Australia RL is a slog.  Can you cherry pick good moments? Yeah you can, swamped by the wrestling in-between. 

Go watch 30 minutes of Wigan playing at Wembley in the early 90s, then watch 30 minutes of Australian RL today. I have. It’s two different sports. One is open and full and running, then there’s the latter. RL had big names here and that wasn’t just due to Grandstand. Games are still shown on the BBC today, but nobody stands out like they once did, because they aren’t allowed to (this also applies to RU btw, who have brought in RL coaches to tighten ups their defences, making it ultra attritional).

Elstone and co. talk about needing to “create stars”. RL could do that if they were willing to do what it takes. They don’t. They just ignore the elephant in the room.

“How can we have more of those Rangi Chase moments?” should be the main question being asked by RL authorities. Everything else (tinkering with rules, clock etc.) is window dressing. You allow more creativity, flair, and openness in the game, you will create stars, you will entice viewers, and you will entice new players wanting to emulate what they see. The potential stars exist right now, but they aren’t afforded the platform on the field. RL in England has roughly 44k players, total. Alarm bells should be ringing. They are not. “How can we make the game more appealing to play?” (another way of asking the Rangi Chase one). 

RL will never die here (despite the odd report that crops up every while), it’s entrenched in the communities along a stretch of the north, but oddly enough, Australian RL (often seen here as a beacon of hope for the sports survival) is doing massive damage to the game here. As I said, what works in Australia does not work here. Aussies love a scrap. Any fight between an Aussie and an Englishman in RL is very one sided 99 times of out 100. Similar happens in international rules between Ireland and Aus, the Aussies beat seven bells out of Irish players. There’s also an emphasis on bulking up, and using whatever to do so. Remember a RU Lions tour in 2001 Ronan O’Gara laid out on the ground with his back turned to an Aussie and getting an absolute pummelling. The Aussie (McRae?) just smiled. It’s a very aggressive culture, domestic violence is rampant in Australian society, with Aussie RL a part of that culture. English culture is much more refined, less in your face or confrontational. This translates to sporting taste where skill and flair is highly appreciated. Importing the wrestle from Aussie coach’s has been the worst change in RL here in the last 15 years. Making the game here more in line with the game in Australia will ensure numbers continue to dwindle.

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3 hours ago, DEANO said:

4000 for league 1 would be incredible more than some sl clubs

Totally agree, however in a 25,000 capacity stadium it’s going to look lost. One advantage Toronto had was playing at Lamport, a sub 10,000 capacity stadium so a crowd of 4,000 would still look appropriate. As I mentioned before my sons university gridiron team, with average crowds around 6,000 in a 10,000 stadium generates a good atmosphere despite the running track, however a couple of the Canadian university gridiron teams play at CFL venues and their crowds look totally lost, which in turn kills the atmosphere.

My worry about Ottawa is that they need to create as good an impression as possible quickly with the local business community, so that they can generate sponsorship income which in turn will make them less reliant on the owner (and we all know how that story often ends), however despite having good corporate facilities the chances are any potential sponsors impression, as well as TV viewers is going to be rows and rows of empty seats, even with what we agree would be a great crowd for L1 inside. I just can’t help feeling that this happens a lot in RL, especially with expansion clubs, who may well attract decent crowds initially for their level, but play in facilities which are way to big for their needs, which kills the atmosphere and then generally puts off potential sponsors plus the casual fan. Plus it’s not just expansion clubs, a number of Championship and L1 clubs operate out of way too large facilities and I just feel that one area the RFL may have been better to get involved in before purchasing the lease on Odsal would have been assisting some clubs to get into more suitable size stadia. I’m also old enough to remember how terrible the atmosphere was for Carlisle when they played at Brunson Park, but how much it improved when moving to the more suitably sized Gillford Park. Sadly as I say, there’s no money in the game and teams have to play out of where they can, which brings us back to West Wales, a location that’s not really suitable to expand the game, but where else more centrally could they play? Who would want them (not to rip them off)?

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5 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Obviously not.

Evidence speaks for itself. Nomadic clubs in their short history lack of crowds hammerings and.  here today gone  tomorrow. Much as I admire them and wish them all the best history shows it doesn’t work in Wales 

sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

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