Harry Stottle Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: I stated lower tier RL , no club gets more than 30% of capacity , not Premier League or indeed SL As I put earlier , PPV will result in match ' parties ' , let alone a pub buying it and inviting fans to attend , further diluting the money coming in The top tiers are getting TV money , as I put early on , it's a numbers game , 3,000 tops in the RL Championship at maybe Leigh,Bradford or Widnes , not 25,000 at Old Trafford How do you safely get people to and from the ground, I like yourself have been watching our club when we have less than 3K in attendance, people congregate on the way to the stadium mainly in the last 30 mins before KO, and everyone leaves at the same time at least 70% going up Etherstone St. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said: How do you safely get people to and from the ground, I like yourself have been watching our club when we have less than 3K in attendance, people congregate on the way to the stadium mainly in the last 30 mins before KO, and everyone leaves at the same time at least 70% going up Etherstone St. With the whole stadium open you then have twice as many entry points spread all around the LSV , as I've put already , nothing different to what we've all become used to over the last 6 months Which place would you feel safer , the Tommy Burke not wearing a mask or a seat in the East stand wearing one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjonn Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: I stated lower tier RL , no club gets more than 30% of capacity , not Premier League or indeed SL As I put earlier , PPV will result in match ' parties ' , let alone a pub buying it and inviting fans to attend , further diluting the money coming in The top tiers are getting TV money , as I put early on , it's a numbers game , 3,000 tops in the RL Championship at maybe Leigh,Bradford or Widnes , not 25,000 at Old Trafford yep, I understand. I guess the whole principle is to reduce social interaction as much as possible, but we are always looking to increase it. I guess individually certain scenarios are minimal but the more exceptions the higher the number of interactions, the higher the risks overall, etc. Hence lines have to be drawn somewhere and it ain't an exact science or fairness to those impacted the most. PPV "parties" would be inevitable just as in extra people attending in gathering in the Pub attending games. So for me its surprising the PL are doing it given the potential consequences on society outside of their control. I guess if no vaccine then we need to re-examine how we can live with covid. In some respects that will mean sports organizations increasing costs and hence their customers having to pay more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Route66 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 21 minutes ago, Steve Slater said: I've been writing match reports for League Express and League Weekly since 2014, mainly from Fev, and during that time I've had very close association with the RoversTV team, and my grandson was one of the commentators before he became the head of media, from where he moved on to his present media job at Salford. During that time I've seen RoversTV grow from strength to strength and become subscription based. They provide a live audio feed from all games and you can watch video highlights usually the same evening or early next day, and then watch the recording of the full game, 48 hours after the game has finished, this time lapse being at Sky's insistence. It is also the terms of the Sky contract that presents them from providing live video streaming, although they have done this in the past with pre-season friendlies that don't come under Sky's jurisdiction, and also a hastily arrange mid-week Challenge Cup tie from London where the BBC allowed permission because of the difficulty of fans travelling at short notice. When folk say PPV wouldn't be worthwhile in the Championship they forget about the away games, where take up would be much greater, but when fans are allowed to return would the old and vulnerable turn out? PPV would be a godsend for them, so too for fans who live far away or even overseas. And how many would want to watch live video streaming while they are away on holiday? RoversTV gets many fans listening from abroad while they're on holiday. The picture and sound quality is perfectly acceptable even if its not HD quality, but who needs that if it means watching their team? For those clubs without a TV crew it wouldn't be that expensive to set up, and how many wedding video specialists are currently out of work? Yes, PPV would work in the Championship, but it would need Sky's permission for it to go ahead. It sounds like rovers over time have built up a following, the problem is most clubs would just make the game available but do nothing to attract and engage their potential viewers. Following a team is habit forming but once circumstances change and the habit breaks it can be difficult to return, how many supporters from our towns have left their areas and then been lost to their clubs, these are the ones who could bring in the extra income alongside regulars. Would love crowds back in at league 1 level ,have seen 3 Northern premier league football games this season, 400 attendance each one all tickets sold a day or so early,demand is now massively exceeding supply which seems to be hyping up the interest even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 3 hours ago, GUBRATS said: More , an England match on ITV is available to everybody for free Obvious really , I can't believe you asked And I can’t believe you’re rather drab response but we are where we are. And where we are is that house parties (for want of a much better word) already exist for England internationals and top level soccer even though they are being shown on non PPV channels. The culture of doing that already exists. PPV is no more of a risk of transmission than ... to pluck a completely random example ... a toilet at a stadium where the folk running it just seem to think it’s all about a few masks and a one way system. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 15 minutes ago, redjonn said: yep, I understand. I guess the whole principle is to reduce social interaction as much as possible, but we are always looking to increase it. I guess individually certain scenarios are minimal but the more exceptions the higher the number of interactions, the higher the risks overall, etc. Hence lines have to be drawn somewhere and it ain't an exact science or fairness to those impacted the most. PPV "parties" would be inevitable just as in extra people attending in gathering in the Pub attending games. So for me its surprising the PL are doing it given the potential consequences on society outside of their control. I guess if no vaccine then we need to re-examine how we can live with covid. In some respects that will mean sports organizations increasing costs and hence their customers having to pay more... House gatherings are still subject to the rule of six. You can always report your neighbours if they break the rules. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjonn Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Just now, gingerjon said: House gatherings are still subject to the rule of six. You can always report your neighbours if they break the rules. yep, not sure how many of us would though, however annoying it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 I'm not saying PPV isn't something that clubs should look at , especially for away fans , as quite often that could be extra income , but quite simply as far as providing enough income to actually finance the competition and all the clubs in it ( you need something that will give all the clubs enough , just because Leigh or Fev maybe could do it isn't enough ) it isn't viable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: I'm not saying PPV isn't something that clubs should look at , especially for away fans , as quite often that could be extra income , but quite simply as far as providing enough income to actually finance the competition and all the clubs in it ( you need something that will give all the clubs enough , just because Leigh or Fev maybe could do it isn't enough ) it isn't viable Nothing's viable though, is it? If viable means "at least covering costs". You won't get crowds back to the level needed, testing and additional hygiene/cleaning/control measures will be required for any level of crowd, and there are likely to remain issues around short-notice postponements. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 2 hours ago, gingerjon said: Nothing's viable though, is it? If viable means "at least covering costs". You won't get crowds back to the level needed, testing and additional hygiene/cleaning/control measures will be required for any level of crowd, and there are likely to remain issues around short-notice postponements. Shut up shop it is then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 3 hours ago, GUBRATS said: With the whole stadium open you then have twice as many entry points spread all around the LSV , as I've put already , nothing different to what we've all become used to over the last 6 months Which place would you feel safer , the Tommy Burke not wearing a mask or a seat in the East stand wearing one ? Or sitting at home watching TV? The choices aren't binary. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said: Or sitting at home watching TV? The choices aren't binary. As I've put John , I don't believe the numbers would stack up , unless you think £ 60 a game is doable ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldbear Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 7 hours ago, Harry Stottle said: Have you been away long enough to have forgot the word "Crisps"☹ Was thinking Tortilla chips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 3 hours ago, GUBRATS said: Shut up shop it is then Play the hand we're dealt with. That may be the only option. But if it isn't, then just relying on ground and matchday attendance income will not be sustainable. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 A bit more interesting context: https://www.oldhamathletic.co.uk/news/2020/october/07102020-ifollow-figures/ (Using Oldham because they were the first to come up via google). Structure appears to be that home side keeps all income from its sales and from the first 500 sold by the away team. The away team takes the money from all sold after the first 500. The actual figures: for their match v Leyton Orient they had 692 season ticket holders watching and 574 paying £10; v Crawley that 771 and 300 respectively. Orient sold enough to generate income for themselves, Crawley only sold 360 which all went to Oldham. (There are others on the link.) Oldham normally have around 4,000 in per game at the moment so it looks like they're selling around 1/8 of that to paying customers each week with a higher number of season ticket holders who've already paid tuning in as well. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Chopra Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 If I understand the new govt jobs scheme rightly, employees of businesses that are forced to close will get 2/3 salary to the end of April. If crowds aren't permitted at the start of the 2021 season, then by my reckoning that forces Championship and L1 to close, so players and staff should be eligible for this new furlough. Not ideal in that it delays the return further, but at least it keeps the clubs financially afloat until they can start to bring back fans. This would be the right choice over trying to make PPV viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 22 hours ago, GUBRATS said: Shut up shop it is then That isn't the natural decision though Gubrats, although it is worst case and may end up being what happens, like it did this year. With planning though, it may mean that creative plans are needed to get the show on the road in a way that will cost money next year and only cover itself over a longer period of time. That's where the likes of PPV may become part of the solution, it is very very unlikely to help to cover the costs in the short term, but it may help to reduce the level of losses in that period. Short term pain will happen, I'm not convinced that hiding in the bunker is the best way, as I think some will not come back out. I think there are probably a limitless amount of scenarios, but I must admit, I'm glad I'm not making these decisions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Dave T said: That isn't the natural decision though Gubrats, although it is worst case and may end up being what happens, like it did this year. With planning though, it may mean that creative plans are needed to get the show on the road in a way that will cost money next year and only cover itself over a longer period of time. That's where the likes of PPV may become part of the solution, it is very very unlikely to help to cover the costs in the short term, but it may help to reduce the level of losses in that period. Short term pain will happen, I'm not convinced that hiding in the bunker is the best way, as I think some will not come back out. I think there are probably a limitless amount of scenarios, but I must admit, I'm glad I'm not making these decisions! But as I've put , PPV doesn't work at lower tier anything , the numbers aren't there , it might work for a fan base that is 5/10/20 times a clubs capacity like Utd/Liverpool , but seriously how many Swinton,Dewsbury,Batley fans are going to sign up ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 17 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: But as I've put , PPV doesn't work at lower tier anything , the numbers aren't there , it might work for a fan base that is 5/10/20 times a clubs capacity like Utd/Liverpool , but seriously how many Swinton,Dewsbury,Batley fans are going to sign up ? It depends on what you mean by 'work'. They already broadcast some games for free. Even if they make pretty minimal mounts from charging, it eats into the losses that will be incurred next year. If it can be done well, subscription services can have a place in the model. Sky money doesn't cover the costs of SL, we will still lose millions, but we are doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 58 minutes ago, Dave T said: It depends on what you mean by 'work'. They already broadcast some games for free. Even if they make pretty minimal mounts from charging, it eats into the losses that will be incurred next year. If it can be done well, subscription services can have a place in the model. Sky money doesn't cover the costs of SL, we will still lose millions, but we are doing it. I'm discussing lower tier RL , anything less than 50% of normal income isn't viable IMO , it quite simply wouldn't be worth it opening the gates , it would be more sensible to hibernate for another season , again IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 29 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: I'm discussing lower tier RL , anything less than 50% of normal income isn't viable IMO , it quite simply wouldn't be worth it opening the gates , it would be more sensible to hibernate for another season , again IMO So am I. If we are not charging for season tickets, there is a case that people would be open to pay more for subscriptions, look at the amount of 'donations' that have happened this year. You then have to look at how to reduce the costs, as well as the fact that there is likely to be some form of crowds in 2021, as we are seeing in the lower divisions of football. But ultimately, plans will need to be created on how to reduce the losses next year and then are absorbed and recovered in subsequent years. RL clubs are no different to many other businesses, they are likely to see losses whatever happens. Hibernation should not be taken lightly, the repercussions of that should be understood - what are players going to do during the 18m that clubs have stopped being things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 6 hours ago, Toby Chopra said: If I understand the new govt jobs scheme rightly, employees of businesses that are forced to close will get 2/3 salary to the end of April. If crowds aren't permitted at the start of the 2021 season, then by my reckoning that forces Championship and L1 to close, so players and staff should be eligible for this new furlough. Not ideal in that it delays the return further, but at least it keeps the clubs financially afloat until they can start to bring back fans. This would be the right choice over trying to make PPV viable. This doesn't apply to companies facing consequential closure, only those instructed to close. Those eligible will be remarkably few unless the rules change. It is unlikely to include sports clubs. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Slater Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 8 hours ago, SL17 said: New Movies/Films are switching to streaming networks.Not touching the cinemas. They have a product to sell. Are you saying the lower tiers don’t have? What is the cost of an OurLeague game? Will the OurLeague game tomorrow only be for season ticket holders? Could money have been contributed? No because Sky says so. Now is the time to experiment with video streaming before the new TV contracts are finalised. All games have to be recorded for disciplinary purposes so we are halfway there, and it wouldn't be too difficult to put them out on live video streaming. Maybe the RFL could help with this out of the money they don't have to pay as a parachute payment to the relegated club? If we started with the pre-season friendlies as a trial this would be outside Sky's jurisdiction. I know it wouldn't bring in enough to replace crowds, but it would be a useful supplement to help offset the predicted reduced attendances. More important, however, it would give an insight on what advancing technology may bring and give an indication on whether the current restrictions that Sky impose need to be taken out of any future TV negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 On 12/10/2020 at 07:29, gingerjon said: A bit more interesting context: https://www.oldhamathletic.co.uk/news/2020/october/07102020-ifollow-figures/ (Using Oldham because they were the first to come up via google). Structure appears to be that home side keeps all income from its sales and from the first 500 sold by the away team. The away team takes the money from all sold after the first 500. The actual figures: for their match v Leyton Orient they had 692 season ticket holders watching and 574 paying £10; v Crawley that 771 and 300 respectively. Orient sold enough to generate income for themselves, Crawley only sold 360 which all went to Oldham. (There are others on the link.) Oldham normally have around 4,000 in per game at the moment so it looks like they're selling around 1/8 of that to paying customers each week with a higher number of season ticket holders who've already paid tuning in as well. Some clubs were complaining about that distribution of iFollow because they said it was unfair they didn't make as much money out of away fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Tommygilf said: Some clubs were complaining about that distribution of iFollow because they said it was unfair they didn't make as much money out of away fans. Aye, I'm not saying it was perfect or people won't complain. Just putting it up for context. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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