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ATLANTISMAN

FRANCE/DRAGONS/TOULOUSE

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Hello Everyone,

 

I thought that with all the discussion around TW it was about time we had a France thread on this forum (Better here than the French section which is hardly visited)

Having watched literally hundreds of French RL matches over the years (Audios too:) it never ceases to amaze me how against all the odds the French continue to produce some really great quality players however we have now reached a time where we have to make a brave decision I will explain.

Anyone who realistically thinks there will be a large CASH deal for rugby league in France anytime soon is living in cloud cuckoo land unless there were at least 2/3 clubs in SL it will never happen however unless we admit Toulouse PDQ I am afraid to say that the game in France will drift further away.

What is needed is 

* Toulouse in SL ASAP (With a minimum 3 year protection against relegation)

* Annual test in France v England 

* Academies in UK set up

* Elite 1 help given with sponsorship and marketing from outside

* You Tube channel created for regular weekly Elite 1 match LIVE 

* Regular test matches and tours 

* Assistance in coaching at junior level

 

I can keep going on this for ages.

 

Edited by ATLANTISMAN
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I’d love to see Toulouse in (an expanded 14 team) SL but for me they need to earn it on the pitch. I’d also like to see Elite 1 sides in the CC, if they wanted to be in it. Problem with moving another team or two into the English system would be it would weaken Elite 1 further?

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13 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I’d love to see Toulouse in (an expanded 14 team) SL but for me they need to earn it on the pitch. I’d also like to see Elite 1 sides in the CC, if they wanted to be in it. Problem with moving another team or two into the English system would be it would weaken Elite 1 further?

Yeah its a paradox that is hard to balance. Fundamentally I think the French game will be stronger with a clutch of clubs playing fully professionally (and that is most likely in the English system) which could subsequently be the basis of a pro French League that could run alongside the British competition or as part of a wider European competition.

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6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Yeah its a paradox that is hard to balance. Fundamentally I think the French game will be stronger with a clutch of clubs playing fully professionally (and that is most likely in the English system) which could subsequently be the basis of a pro French League that could run alongside the British competition or as part of a wider European competition.

Well yeah if Elite 1 ran alongside League One as a feeder into the Championship it would be great, if they wanted that. Then the likes of Valencia and maybe Red Star could go through that pathway instead of L1. 

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5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Well yeah if Elite 1 ran alongside League One as a feeder into the Championship it would be great, if they wanted that. Then the likes of Valencia and maybe Red Star could go through that pathway instead of L1. 

I've thought for a while that SL could be a body with set numbers for each nation and that those nations should decide themselves how they sort that. In that respect, Elite 1 and the Championship could be aligned at the same level, (I personally think its as good as the bottom half of the championship standard wise) but French places in the top would be lower than English to reflect the relative strengths of each national league. 

I agree that Elite 2 and League 1 can be the vehicles for clubs like Red Star in general to aim for. Though I think if Serbian etc clubs want to progress successfully, then Elite 1 either needs to be fully pro or connected to a pathway to the fully pro game.

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I think if the thread OP asked ‘what are the French doing right, rather than wrong’, we would see a damn site more positives than SL.

Their academies and youth are good and they compete with England.  Despite, maybe, more attrition in the later teens playing the game.  

TO have to earn promotion.  They have just signed the Samoan, Paulo from Saints.  By continuing to develop their youth infrastructure they will strengthen as a club and rely on these signings less and less.

Forget Eastern European clubs in the French development calculation.  ER should be developing itself.

 

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1 minute ago, Lowdesert said:

 

TO have to earn promotion.  They have just signed the Samoan, Paulo from Saints.  

 

They’ve almost single handedly stopped themselves doing the former by doing the latter. 

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This virus put an end to what I was hoping to be something really big in 2020. Toulouse Olympique to host a double header at Ernest Wallon home of the prestigious Stade Toulousain club where TO are now based. Catalans Dragons played a game at this venue in 2013 against Hull KR attracting a crowd of 14,858. This time round though it was to be a double-header with first-up TO-London Broncos followed by the Dragons-Leeds Rhinos. Given a decent May day it was hoped to to realise the biggest club game in the history of French rugby league. Possibly being not far off capacity say 18,000. A year after 31,555 assembled in Barcelona for Dragons-Wigan which not let us remember established a competition record.

TO have been hammering on the RFL’s door for nearly two decades, It was touch and go in 2006 between them and Catalans for a Super League place. Richard Lewis finally went for Catalans. They were given a first go in the Championship soon after as a runner-ups reward. Three years proved too much,Just not good enough. Licking their wounds though won back to back French Championships showing that they had learnt something. Under new leadership of Bernard Sarrazain they where ready to go again starting in the third tier. Winning promotion early on showing up from the off in the Championship insde two years. When the competition was terminated this year they where in top place undefeated.

Coach Houles well established there from the off second time round. Building bit by bit, Solid recrutement from overseas, improving year on year. For 2021 Leigh half-back Ben Reynolds, former Leeds prop Mitch Garbutt and linked to possibly to St Helens forward Joseph Paulo.Lloyd White and Harrison Hansen with plenty of Super League experienc indicates further their aspirations.

Edited by audois
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"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"  - Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."  - Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

Si tu( Remi Casty) devais envoyer un fax au Président Guasch? " Un grand bravo pour ce que vous avez fait,et merci de m 'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure"

gallery_02-am31503_5b827265940b7_.jpg

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If TO make it into SLE who is the next club that would be likely to make the jump and what would be a realistic time frame.

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2 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

If TO make it into SLE who is the next club that would be likely to make the jump and what would be a realistic time frame.

Various clubs over the years but other than talk, no one imo.  VSL were the last to say they were aiming at League 1 but I’m unsure of their intentions since Ellis left.

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22 minutes ago, audois said:

 

Coach Houles well established there from the off second time round. Building bit by bit, Solid recrutement from overseas, improving year on year. For 2021 Leigh half-back Ben Reynolds, former Leeds prop Mitch Garbutt and linked to possibly to St Helens forward Joseph Paulo.Lloyd White and Harrison Hansen with plenty of Super League experienc indicates further their aspirations.

Are you concerned that the playing squad seems, like Catalans, to be getting slowly less and less French? Albeit that we have seen more French players spread around other SL teams in recent years

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2 minutes ago, mrfranco said:

Are you concerned that the playing squad seems, like Catalans, to be getting slowly less and less French? Albeit that we have seen more French players spread around other SL teams in recent years

As the latter point is correct, then the first point doesn’t concern me too much. 

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26 minutes ago, audois said:

This virus put an end to what I was hoping to be something really big in 2020. Toulouse Olympique to host a double header at Ernest Wallon home of the prestigious Stade Toulousain club where TO are now based. Catalans Dragons played a game at this venue in 2013 against Hull KR attracting a crowd of 14,858. This time round though it was to be a double-header with first-up TO-London Broncos followed by the Dragons-Leeds Rhinos. Given a decent May day it was hoped to to realise the biggest club game in the history of French rugby league. Possibly being not far off capacity say 18,000. A year after 31,555 assembled in Barcelona for Dragons-Wigan which not let us remember established a competition record.

TO have been hammering on the RFL’s door for nearly two decades, It was touch and go in 2006 between them and Catalans for a Super League place. Richard Lewis finally went for Catalans. They were given a first go in the Championship soon after as a runner-ups reward. Three years proved too much,Just not good enough. Licking their wounds though won back to back French Championships showing that they had learnt something. Under new leadership of Bernard Sarrazain they where ready to go again starting in the third tier. Winning promotion early on showing up from the off in the Championship insde two years. When the competition was terminated this year they where in top place undefeated.

Coach Houles well established there from the off second time round. Building bit by bit, Solid recrutement from overseas, improving year on year. For 2021 Leigh half-back Ben Reynolds, former Leeds prop Mitch Garbutt and linked to possibly to St Helens forward Joseph Paulo.Lloyd White and Harrison Hansen with plenty of Super League experienc indicates further their aspirations.

What do you think Toulouse’s average attendance would be if they went into SL Audois? I’ve often read people on this forum say 10k, which sounds like a lot to me, but as you live there and have so much knowledge of the game what do you think? 

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29 minutes ago, audois said:

This virus put an end to what I was hoping to be something really big in 2020. Toulouse Olympique to host a double header at Ernest Wallon home of the prestigious Stade Toulousain club where TO are now based. Catalans Dragons played a game at this venue in 2013 against Hull KR attracting a crowd of 14,858. This time round though it was to be a double-header with first-up TO-London Broncos followed by the Dragons-Leeds Rhinos. Given a decent May day it was hoped to to realise the biggest club game in the history of French rugby league. Possibly being not far off capacity say 18,000. A year after 31,555 assembled in Barcelona for Dragons-Wigan which not let us remember established a competition record.

TO have been hammering on the RFL’s door for nearly two decades, It was touch and go in 2006 between them and Catalans for a Super League place. Richard Lewis finally went for Catalans. They were given a first go in the Championship soon after as a runner-ups reward. Three years proved too much,Just not good enough. Licking their wounds though won back to back French Championships showing that they had learnt something. Under new leadership of Bernard Sarrazain they where ready to go again starting in the third tier. Winning promotion early on showing up from the off in the Championship insde two years. When the competition was terminated this year they where in top place undefeated.

Coach Houles well established there from the off second time round. Building bit by bit, Solid recrutement from overseas, improving year on year. For 2021 Leigh half-back Ben Reynolds, former Leeds prop Mitch Garbutt and linked to possibly to St Helens forward Joseph Paulo.Lloyd White and Harrison Hansen with plenty of Super League experienc indicates further their aspirations.

A French SL derby would add to the competition hugely and would make it more likely to attract television interest, It needs to happen,

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"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"  - Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."  - Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

Si tu( Remi Casty) devais envoyer un fax au Président Guasch? " Un grand bravo pour ce que vous avez fait,et merci de m 'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure"

gallery_02-am31503_5b827265940b7_.jpg

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12 minutes ago, mrfranco said:

Are you concerned that the playing squad seems, like Catalans, to be getting slowly less and less French? Albeit that we have seen more French players spread around other SL teams in recent years

I think thats better personally.

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8 minutes ago, mrfranco said:

Are you concerned that the playing squad seems, like Catalans, to be getting slowly less and less French? Albeit that we have seen more French players spread around other SL teams in recent years

The couple of times the Warriors made the NRL GF there was a large contingent of non Kiwis in their squad and it certainly never seemed to affect their popularity. Winning was what was important. Of course it doesn`t hurt to have a couple of home grown stars in the team like Stacey Jones , for the locals to get behind, but it`s amazing how supporters will `adopt` players whom they like.

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10 minutes ago, audois said:

A French SL derby would add to the competition hugely and would make it more likely to attract television interest, It needs to happen,

So  Audois, what`s a realistic time frame for a third SLE side, Given the interest that two could generate, might it possibly accelerate the development of a third. Who are the clubs to keep an eye out for.

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2 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Why do Toulouse need to win promotion on the field? Catalans didn’t, Toulouse should be in Super League, let’s stop trying to please Fev and Leigh fans and just put Toulouse into Super League.

Just because something happened years ago doesn’t mean it should happen again. And it’s got nothing to do with pleasing Leigh and Fev fans (though they are as important to the game as fans of any other club), it’s about sporting integrity. 
 

Out of interest, who would you kick out to put Toulouse in?

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8 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Why do Toulouse need to win promotion on the field? Catalans didn’t, Toulouse should be in Super League, let’s stop trying to please Fev and Leigh fans and just put Toulouse into Super League.

You have a different opinion. C'est la vie.

 

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8 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Why do Toulouse need to win promotion on the field? Catalans didn’t, Toulouse should be in Super League, let’s stop trying to please Fev and Leigh fans and just put Toulouse into Super League.

Exactly. Put them in. Give them a long term exemption to relegation and let them play. 

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