Second PNG team in the Queensland Cup?

[Davo5]

17 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

How many players that have been at the PNG Hunters are now with NRL clubs or their feeder clubs? 

But according to one on here if little Bruce can’t get a run in Walkabout Creek U13s because of big rough lads with Islands heritage PNG & PI shouldn’t be supported and allowed into the Qld/NSW Cups.

[Pulga]

8 hours ago, Oxford said:

Thanks for replying I got a response from someone else about the one here!

Taking turns eh? sounds fun!

I understand the economic reasoning behind PNG/NRL but wouldn't a club there help that grow?

Why though when the Hunters are a pro club in arguably the second strongest comp in the world?

[Oxford]

12 minutes ago, Pulga said:

Why though when the Hunters are a pro club in arguably the second strongest comp in the world?

Just not sure what you're asking there, sorry!

[Pulga]

Just now, Oxford said:

Just not sure what you're asking there, sorry!

You were saying that a club in PNG would help. They already have one in arguably the second strongest competition in the world. An NRL team would only incur much greater costs.

[Oxford]

9 hours ago, Pulga said:

You were saying that a club in PNG would help. They already have one in arguably the second strongest competition in the world. An NRL team would only incur much greater costs.

Okay thanks !

[Oxford]

Now I need the answer to another question who will  Xavier Coates play for an international level?

[UTK]

5 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Now I need the answer to another question who will  Xavier Coates play for an international level?

Well he debuted for PNG last year, just prior to making his NRL debut I believe. I'm fairly sure I read a story about his ambitions to represent PNG at the Olympics as he was deciding between the NRL and a career in athletics. If my recollection is correct then it appears he has strong ties to PNG, however you could also see given he's lived in Australia for quite a while he may also harbour Kangaroos ambitions (Obviously money becomes a factor too). 

 

[Oxford]

3 minutes ago, UTK said:

Well he debuted for PNG last year, just prior to making his NRL debut I believe. I'm fairly sure I read a story about his ambitions to represent PNG at the Olympics as he was deciding between the NRL and a career in athletics. If my recollection is correct then it appears he has strong ties to PNG, however you could also see given he's lived in Australia for quite a while he may also harbour Kangaroos ambitions (Obviously money becomes a factor too). 

 

Thanks UTK.

I assumed that he might have Kangaroo ambitions cos he's playing SOO.

 

[The Great Dane]

On 10/11/2020 at 08:41, Pulga said:

Clueless.

The Melbourne Storm are easily the most successful expansion club in the games history and are bigger than any Super League club by miles. It's absolutely not losing ground in its heartland. That's a myth.

Firstly, you are moving the goal posts a bit there, because you are using a different metric for successful expansion then I was. Sure the Storm have been great on the pitch, but in 20 years they've utterly failed to make any significant headway in the grassroots in Victoria. Until a few years ago they weren't even trying instead investing all their time and resources into SEQ.

But even if we totally accept that the Storm have been a massive success in every regard that is 1 time in the last 112 years that RL has successfully grown outside of it's "heartlands", and by any reasonable standard that is a total failure to expand the sport.

RL losing ground in it's heartlands isn't a myth either, it's a fact that people would rather ignore because currently it's happening out of sight out of mind.

The AFL has steadily grown in Southern and, to a slightly lesser extent, Western NSW, and with each year is crawling further and further north. It's got so bad that if the AFL launched a club in Canberra tomorrow it would be at least as big if not bigger than the Raiders overnight, which would have been a laughable notion 20 years ago. 

Their growth in Sydney has also been slow but steady. There've grown larger than anybody said would be possible, and in a generation or two they'll have cemented GWS and the sport in Western Sydney along with them, which is growth at a rate that RL could only dream of in Melbourne or anywhere else outside NSW and Qld.

On 10/11/2020 at 08:41, Pulga said:

The reason internationals aren't as viable is because nobody wants to see England smashed over and over.

Sure that's part of why international RL is dead down here, doesn't change the fact that having bunch of strong PI teams won't grow mainstream interest in international RL down here, and that you need to break SOO's monopoly on representative footy in Australia before you'll see any real interest in internationals again.

[The Great Dane]

On 10/11/2020 at 13:31, nadera78 said:

This just isn't true. It isn't a fact, no matter how many times you repeat it or the force with which you do so. The overwhelming majority of NZ rugby league players learnt to play the game in the domestic NZ clubs. 

Where did I say that the majority of NZ rugby league players didn't learn to play the game in NZ? I mean is it really that hard to just address the point that people are making instead of twisting it into something else.

It doesn't mean jack where they learn to play the game as a kid if there's no pathway to professionalism, and currently for most Kiwi RL players that means either through Australia or the school RU system in NZ.

[The Great Dane]

On 10/11/2020 at 13:44, UTK said:

Affiliated states is without doubt a weakpoint in the scope of the NRL development system, and you're correct there's many talented guys in bush footy that are lost to the game through lack of opportunity (Though in NSW a few relatively recent re-structures appear to be improving this at a junior level). 

I would disagree however that the degree of untapped potential is the same as PNG. Within a few years in the QCup an entirely domestic side was able to to win the comp, prior to winning the side was near the top of the table each year. Obviously just last year the Kumuls outdid Great Britain. This is all achieved without any proper junior representative structures for young PNG talent to come through and with a seemingly general reluctance of NRL clubs to take on domestic PNG talent. How far they've come in such a short amount of time is outstanding considering all that is currently in place is one team in QCup, adding further junior sides and possibly another senior side could be massive for the game.

Just on population alone there's more potential talent in the Affiliated states and bush than PNG.

I mean look at it this way; almost every professional AFL and RU player (and potentially other athletes as well) could potentially have become a RL player if the sport had engaged with them at a young enough age. That's a lot of talent in Australia where the NRL currently doesn't even get a look in, but with changes could be syphoning some off into RL. That's also without even getting into the guys with potential whom never even really get a look into a professional career in sport and end up giving it in, of which there are a lot but they are hard to quantify.

You say look at the Hunters, but there's no equivalent opportunity for that talent that is overlooked in the Affiliated states or bush to showcase their wares, so you're basically arguing that there's more talent in PNG simply because it gets more exposure, which is just silly.

[The Great Dane]

19 hours ago, Davo5 said:

But according to one on here if little Bruce can’t get a run in Walkabout Creek U13s because of big rough lads with Islands heritage PNG & PI shouldn’t be supported and allowed into the Qld/NSW Cups.

Little Bruce could have been the next Andrew Johns, instead he became the next Gary Ablett...

[Pulga]

6 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Firstly, you are moving the goal posts a bit there, because you are using a different metric for successful expansion then I was. Sure the Storm have been great on the pitch, but in 20 years they've utterly failed to make any significant headway in the grassroots in Victoria. Until a few years ago they weren't even trying instead investing all their time and resources into SEQ.

But even if we totally accept that the Storm have been a massive success in every regard that is 1 time in the last 112 years that RL has successfully grown outside of it's "heartlands", and by any reasonable standard that is a total failure to expand the sport.

RL losing ground in it's heartlands isn't a myth either, it's a fact that people would rather ignore because currently it's happening out of sight out of mind.

The AFL has steadily grown in Southern and, to a slightly lesser extent, Western NSW, and with each year is crawling further and further north. It's got so bad that if the AFL launched a club in Canberra tomorrow it would be at least as big if not bigger than the Raiders overnight, which would have been a laughable notion 20 years ago. 

Their growth in Sydney has also been slow but steady. There've grown larger than anybody said would be possible, and in a generation or two they'll have cemented GWS and the sport in Western Sydney along with them, which is growth at a rate that RL could only dream of in Melbourne or anywhere else outside NSW and Qld.

Sure that's part of why international RL is dead down here, doesn't change the fact that having bunch of strong PI teams won't grow mainstream interest in international RL down here, and that you need to break SOO's monopoly on representative footy in Australia before you'll see any real interest in internationals again.

AFL hasn't really grown in NSW and Qld. The media love to say they have but there's no real evidence. The AFL pump $20m a year EACH for GWS and Gold Coast. They're throwing their money away. I just spent two weeks traveling the whole of Qld. You wouldn't know AFL exists except I saw an abandoned Brisbane Lions store driving through Brisbane and a single AFL field in a town I can't remember.

Do you live here? If so I'd like to know where you think AFL is taking over. 

AFL is a white sport for white people. The diversity of Australia is actually helping NRL to stay on top in Qld and NSW. 

Look at the social media platforms. The NRL has twice the followers of the AFL on Facebook. It's not going anywhere.

[Pulga]

5 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Little Bruce could have been the next Andrew Johns, instead he became the next Gary Ablett...

I live in regional Australia. You don't know what you're talking about.

[Davo5]

10 minutes ago, Pulga said:

I live in regional Australia. You don't know what you're talking about.

Of course he doesn’t but he does like to take over a thread with his waffle

[nadera78]

11 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Where did I say that the majority of NZ rugby league players didn't learn to play the game in NZ? I mean is it really that hard to just address the point that people are making instead of twisting it into something else.

It doesn't mean jack where they learn to play the game as a kid if there's no pathway to professionalism, and currently for most Kiwi RL players that means either through Australia or the school RU system in NZ.

No, you're the one who's being dishonest here. NRL scouts are constantly watching NZRL rep teams and events, and generally sign Kiwi players aged 16-19, almost all of whom have played club RL right through the age grades. Slightly older Kiwis head over to Australia to play in state comps (which is a constant drain on Kiwi player resources but a separate issue to that being discussed).

Your argument would mean that if Player A goes right the way through the domestic RL club scene from U7s upwards, and signs for an NRL club in his late teens, but because he's played 2 or 3 years of schools union as a teenager (as mandated by school curriculum) he'd be considered a RU developed player. It's just not true.

 

[Pulga]

16 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Just on population alone there's more potential talent in the Affiliated states and bush than PNG.

I mean look at it this way; almost every professional AFL and RU player (and potentially other athletes as well) could potentially have become a RL player if the sport had engaged with them at a young enough age. That's a lot of talent in Australia where the NRL currently doesn't even get a look in, but with changes could be syphoning some off into RL. That's also without even getting into the guys with potential whom never even really get a look into a professional career in sport and end up giving it in, of which there are a lot but they are hard to quantify.

You say look at the Hunters, but there's no equivalent opportunity for that talent that is overlooked in the Affiliated states or bush to showcase their wares, so you're basically arguing that there's more talent in PNG simply because it gets more exposure, which is just silly.

A third of PNG's population are estimated to play RL regularly. That's more rugby than any country of either code.

You can completely wipe out union from your argument. In Australia RL absolutely decimates union's pathways. They actually actively use their pathways against them.

PNG is already RL mad in a way that you can only compare to Brazil and soccer. The affiliated states not so much. AFL is their religion.

I think more should be done in Western Australia but outside of that the population doesn't warrant it.

[Davo5]

It’s funny how Qld officials led by David Maiden welcomed the NRL funding when the Hunters signed their 4 year participation agreement last year as it allowed them to use their own funds in grassroots development and to set up a future club in Toowoonba 

Maiden also welcomed the bigger crowds the Hunters brought to the comp and the chance for Qld Cup players to experience playing RL in a different country & culture whilst recognising the important role the Hunters played in player development with 11 former players now signed with NRL/Superleague clubs.

[The Rocket]

 

On 08/11/2020 at 15:11, The Great Dane said:

one of the greatest things that could ever happen for RL would be if the NRL could stop the slow death of the sport in the Bush and get as many fans in the bush as possible actively engaging with the sport on a regular basis. 

Honestly well supported clubs in all the major country towns in NSW and Qld would be enormous for the sport,

The decline of RL in regional NSW mirrors the decline in childrens participation in sport in general. League has the double whammy of being seen as a rough, even dangerous, sport by many modern parents. Often they are not prepared to risk the physical health of their only son. The NSWRL or the NRL could spend all the money in the world and it will probably only have minor effects in increasing participation rates.

There is still a fairly healthy competition, you might just have to travel a little further to find it.

An equally big of challenge that I think that RL has is ensuring all those people who don`t play the game maintain an interest either as eyeballs or attendees.

All sports need a production line of players, EPL has an inexhaustible supply from around the world, to fill the gap left by the decreased participation rates at home, the NFL has an underclass of 100 million in the U.S. who aren`t concerned enough about head or spinal injuries to not see this as a potential route to fame and fortune. Rugby League has on our door step a combined population of probably near 12-15 million where development dollars will go along way and also the added bonus of loving heavy contact sports with none of the squeamishness that will likely hinder their participation.

I think as far as getting bang for your buck, spending money in the Islands and PNG is impossible to beat, the key will be to ensure that despite declining participation at home we maintain peoples interest in following the code. The players may come from elsewhere but as you correctly point out the dollars are over here, in big broadcast deals and sponsorships.

 

[unapologetic pedant]

12 hours ago, nadera78 said:

No, you're the one who's being dishonest here. NRL scouts are constantly watching NZRL rep teams and events, and generally sign Kiwi players aged 16-19, almost all of whom have played club RL right through the age grades. Slightly older Kiwis head over to Australia to play in state comps (which is a constant drain on Kiwi player resources but a separate issue to that being discussed).

Your argument would mean that if Player A goes right the way through the domestic RL club scene from U7s upwards, and signs for an NRL club in his late teens, but because he's played 2 or 3 years of schools union as a teenager (as mandated by school curriculum) he'd be considered a RU developed player. It's just not true.

 

Your "Player A " would be guaranteed to be labelled a "former schoolboy Rugby star" by the NRL media. When he signs an NRL contract an Aussie imbecile journo will ask him "how are you adapting to League, coming from a Rugby background"?

Only if the player can be bothered to explain he`s been playing League since the age of four will the general audience be any the wiser. If like most he can`t be bothered to clarify the matter, he`s assumed by default to be yet another RU player from RU-mad NZ. And will be relentlessly depicted as such thereafter on NRL.com.

The NRL media are far more pernicious than The Great Dane in all this. He`s under their influence, not vice versa. They seem truly unaware that there is any such thing as domestic RL in NZ. All they know or care about is RU.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

9 hours ago, Pulga said:

A third of PNG's population are estimated to play RL regularly. That's more rugby than any country of either code.

You can completely wipe out union from your argument. In Australia RL absolutely decimates union's pathways. They actually actively use their pathways against them.

PNG is already RL mad in a way that you can only compare to Brazil and soccer. The affiliated states not so much. AFL is their religion.

I think more should be done in Western Australia but outside of that the population doesn't warrant it.

Just look at their recent results against England/GB. It’s ludicrous to claim there is more talent in the affiliated states than PNG.

Affiliated States 12 - 74 England 

PNG 28 - 10 Great Britain 

[Oxford]

A bit of kindness would do no harm, honest!

[The Rocket]

So what are you saying. England should have gone a bit easy on the Affiliated States, honest!

Oh! hold on, beg your pardon, you meant the Kumuls on Great Britian. Sorry my mistake.