Promotion to Super League

[Damien]

36 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

How?

Haven't they though? The move to Ernest Walloon and all of the moves they have made in recent years to get the local authorities, sponsorship and corporates on board seems with a view to getting in Super League. The move to full time a few years ago and the improvement of the team over that time indicates they were/are building towards it on the field too.

[JonT]

On 06/11/2020 at 19:34, Tommygilf said:

Keep farming the same field and you're crops will fail.

Not according to the Broadbalk experiment, the longest continually agricultural trial anywhere in the world

http://www.era.rothamsted.ac.uk/Broadbalk

 

[Robin Evans]

7 minutes ago, Damien said:

Haven't they though? The move to Ernest Walloon and all of the moves they have made in recent years to get the local authorities, sponsorship and corporates on board seems with a view to getting in Super League. The move to full time a few years ago and the improvement of the team over that time indicates they were/are building towards it on the field too.

I'm not saying they haven't Damien. I'm asking how. What I ought to have added was how and does their development set them aside from other ambitious clubs?

[JohnM]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Does that mean you seldom attend? Be honest.

In 2020, to what extent is attendance at a game a meaningful  measure of fan-ness?

In response to the initial question, given the rejection of Toronto,  I would like to see Toulouse admitted to SuperLeague.

In my opinion, this would raise the profile of the game in France as well as here, creating a derby opportunity, a sense of occasion as UK travelling fans  tend to generate a sense of occasion; a boost media coverage in both countries, opportunity for French players, a pathway from Elite1...

It could be argued that the advancement of the game in France is the responsibility of the French administrators but in the past they have not shown any talent in that area, in my view, whereas whatever its critics think, SuperLeague is miles ahead in playing standards, organisational standards, marketing and sales.  It's the same effect that the NRL is the games leader.

I suppose the Rugby League European Federation might claim expansion as its responsibility

"It oversees and co-ordinates the development of the sport in all its Member and affiliated countries and territories, as well as neighbouring organisations that choose to link to the RLEF."

or even the RLIF, who's mission is "to foster, develop, promulgate, promote, govern and administer the game of Rugby League throughout the world"

Personally, I see the NRL and SuperLeague doing more than anyone in this respect, so its Toulouse for me as no.12

 

 

 

[Damien]

Just now, Robin Evans said:

I'm not saying they haven't Damien. I'm asking how. What I ought to have added was how and does their development set them aside from other ambitious clubs?

I don't think David was saying others haven't. Like I say I think they have been building for the reasons I say. It sounds like Fev have been doing great work too. I'm not really sure too much on the others or in the case of London or Leigh how they have built any more than what we last saw in Super League.

I am really interested on what the criteria will be. I think there will probably be a strong focus on the playing side, due to the short timeframe, and I think that may rule out some of the others before we get to anything else.

[Harry Stottle]

15 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Agree. So tell the clubs who spend many many thousands on has been's and never was players from the NRL to better spend that money on junior development

Totally agree, Just think how much could have been invested with what was spent on a 37 year old Kiwi who hadn't played the sport dor 5 years.

[Harry Stottle]

42 minutes ago, Damien said:

No it means precisely what I say.

OK, albeit I am not to sure what you mean, could you answer my question please? Do you regularly attend Wigan games both home and away. 

Honest answer please.

[Damien]

11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Totally agree, Just think how much could have been invested with what was spent on a 37 year old Kiwi who hadn't played the sport dor 5 years.

Those double standards again. Its always fine for Leigh to waste money on crocs and has beens but no one else. Typical.

[The Blues Ox]

I honestly believe that there should only be two teams in the running, Fev and Toulouse. Fev have been building for a while, good work on the stadium, good team near the top of the championship for a number of years now. Yes they are propped up by Leeds but this year they look like they have a team that can do well in its own right. Add the leeds players and they are my favs to win the league. Toulouse as has been said are very similar to Fev but are full time which might just give them the edge. Fev should have had a chance in SL over the years and whats to say they couldnt do better than say Wakefield if they were given the chance?  I get the argument that you do not want teams to simply just do better than Wakefield but Cas are a good example of what can be achieved after gaining promotion and building.

As for the others, I don't think Leigh could be trusted to not do something stupid. I don't believe York have earned the right to be given a chance yet but look to be building up to that so fair play to them. Not worth mentioning Bradford too much as even their own fans admit they are light years away. Fax are on a pretty steady footing at the moment but because we have lost our place in the top 4 the last couple of seasons I don't believe we deserve the chance just yet. As for Newcastle they will not even be the top team in league 1 next season so other than putting them in because of their location I can't see them been in with much of a shout.

I do not know much about the owner of Toulouse but my main fear is that the rest of the owners believe that given the chance to go to SL even with reduced funding that their team will survive. Thats just how Campbell, Beaumont, et al are like. They really don't stand a chance.

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, Damien said:

Those double standards again. Its always fine for Leigh to waste money on crocs and has beens but no one else. Typical.

I began with "Totally agree" re where money should be spent, I was just highlighting the most money that has been spent on a croc and has been. So don't go telling me I have double standards.

Anyway back to my last question,  do you regularly attend Wigan games home and away.

[Damien]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

I began with "Totally agree" re where money should be spent, I was just highlighting the most money that has been spent on a croc and has been. So don't go telling me I have double standards.

Anyway back to my last question,  do you regularly attend Wigan games home and away.

Its really none of your business Harry. I'm so sorry that being a Rugby League fan above all, and caring more for the game as a whole rather than my own club, is such an alien concept to you.

[Blind side johnny]

15 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

?

Chief executive Mark Sawyer confirmed that the club will be joining those forced to go to the RFL for a hand-out to help them survive the coming months without any income.

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/18775502.bulls-need-financial-help-rugby-league-crisis-deepens/

Many clubs applied for the facility. This does not mean that, even if it were granted, they have drawn down on it.

I suspect that the extension of furlough through to March will have acted as a significant lifeline to many Championship clubs.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Its really none of your business Harry. I'm so sorry that being a Rugby League fan above all, and caring more for the game as a whole rather than my own club, is such an alien concept to you.

Then I believe you have just answered the question.

PS part time fan.

[Blind side johnny]

12 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Those who've made noises:

Bradford, Fev, Halifax, Newcastle, Leigh, London, Toulouse, Widnes and York.

Knock Newcastle out of that list. Elevation is only available to current Championship clubs.

[Damien]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Then I believe you have just answered the question.

Believe what you like. I don't care what someone that posts the way you do, and shows the hypocrisy and double standards that you do, thinks.

[Blind side johnny]

7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Then I believe you have just answered the question.

PS part time fan.

I thought that you were threatening to give up on the pro game and stick to the amateurs Harry. Is that any different?

[Damien]

29 minutes ago, JohnM said:

In 2020, to what extent is attendance at a game a meaningful  measure of fan-ness?

In response to the initial question, given the rejection of Toronto,  I would like to see Toulouse admitted to SuperLeague.

In my opinion, this would raise the profile of the game in France as well as here, creating a derby opportunity, a sense of occasion as UK travelling fans  tend to generate a sense of occasion; a boost media coverage in both countries, opportunity for French players, a pathway from Elite1...

It could be argued that the advancement of the game in France is the responsibility of the French administrators but in the past they have not shown any talent in that area, in my view, whereas whatever its critics think, SuperLeague is miles ahead in playing standards, organisational standards, marketing and sales.  It's the same effect that the NRL is the games leader.

I suppose the Rugby League European Federation might claim expansion as its responsibility

"It oversees and co-ordinates the development of the sport in all its Member and affiliated countries and territories, as well as neighbouring organisations that choose to link to the RLEF."

or even the RLIF, who's mission is "to foster, develop, promulgate, promote, govern and administer the game of Rugby League throughout the world"

Personally, I see the NRL and SuperLeague doing more than anyone in this respect, so its Toulouse for me as no.12

Good post. I think this sums it up for many that would like to see Toulouse. It is much more than just admitting a club, and whether you think that club is the strongest candidate, and is part of a wider, strategic view to grow the game.

[yipyee]

On 07/11/2020 at 00:46, Niels said:

I don't understand your first comment as all forms of the entertainment industry are reliant to some extent on "support" from non regular patrons.

Teams with a large following of away fans are always a positive as they bring extra money, it's as simple as that. That's why clubs in the league I watch want to draw Leeds, Wigan etc in the cups and were happy when Bradford were promoted. 

I agree that games against the new sides, Toronto, Tolouse bring new support also. But these need to be marketed differently to attract neutral fans or those wishing to see clubs from another country. My club's attendances against Toronto were very good as they were well advertised.

At the end of the day though, the income from extra fans is very important. Any chairman running a club will want to attract fans home, away, plus neutral. 

 

 

My comment is that not bringing many away fans to UK is a stupid irrelevant arguement. 

If a UK club relys on other clubs fans to break even then they shouldnt be in the proffessional ranks.

I am not saying away fans are irrelevant they clearly are not but a business model shouldnt be that other clubs fans will break us even

[yipyee]

10 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Knock Newcastle out of that list. Elevation is only available to current Championship clubs.

Says who?

Good job elevation to league 1 isnt ran by you

[yipyee]

18 hours ago, stevevalerugby said:

they do not attract the sorts of crowds they should be and at leas2 two of the mergers are not really mergers Cardiff Blues are not that well supported up the Valleys past Pontypridd and people rather watch normal club rugby. They are not well supported from these areas because they have the name Cardiff in their title.  The same goes for Newport Gwent Dragons the name Newport in the title puts lots of people off following them. the team that has adjusted well to the merger was the Ospreys who dropped the name Swansea and Neath from their title but again poor crowds.  If you where to ask the general public I'm sure they would want to go back to as it was before regions were introduced.

As an amateur sport and getting thumped in the six nations?

That was good for them wasnt it

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

I thought that you were threatening to give up on the pro game and stick to the amateurs Harry. Is that any different?

Still am threatening Johnny, I said as long as the P&R is available I will watch my team, if it is abandoned then I will just go to the amatuer games, watching and being involved in amateur RL is something that I have always done the transition to that alone will not be difficult.

[Niels]

19 minutes ago, yipyee said:

My comment is that not bringing many away fans to UK is a stupid irrelevant arguement. 

If a UK club relys on other clubs fans to break even then they shouldnt be in the proffessional ranks.

I am not saying away fans are irrelevant they clearly are not but a business model shouldnt be that other clubs fans will break us even

A chairman would always prefer to have a team who provide more money from away fans to those who don't.

They provide more profit. 

It was offset by Toronto because they drew in a lot of neutral fans.

However Toulouse are not Toronto. 

 

[DI Keith Fowler]

10 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Who? no one has told me yet who these fans are that will start supporting the game because a random team (whether that be Leigh, Toulouse or Timbuktu) are in the top division. 'New' fans will surely be associated with a given team.

Are you just arguing semantics over what it means to be "new"? It's a trend seen worldwide in all sports that teams moving up through divisions attract more fans. They weren't there before but they are now, I think you're complicating it a bit. 

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, Niels said:

A chairman would always prefer to have a team who provide more money from away fans to those who don't.

They provide more profit. 

It was offset by Toronto because they drew in a lot of neutral fans.

However Toulouse are not Toronto. 

 

This is a fundamental problem, we're debating a few hundred people and a few thousand pounds that won't necessarily come in with Covid anyway. So small is the difference that it really doesn't matter.

[Niels]

5 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

This is a fundamental problem, we're debating a few hundred people and a few thousand pounds that won't necessarily come in with Covid anyway. So small is the difference that it really doesn't matter.

Ok then, if fans are insignificant, let's replace Leeds and Wigan next time for 2 French teams. 

You are just changing the criteria to suit. Fans are not important when you want Toulouse in, yet they are when you want Wakefield or Salford out.