Tommygilf Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 The reported figure is £3.5 million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul hicks Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Rupert Prince said: Salford are a going concern. Toronto were not. a going concern normally pays its dues otherwise its just as much as a going concern as a failing bulls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul hicks Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said: https://www.rugby-league.com/article/57301/salford-red-devils-deducted-three--super-league-wins- so in effect it means nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREPOSTEROUS Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 To be fair I imagine many lamenting Salford now were creaming themselves when Koukash was allegedly pumping millions into the club. If nothing else this is a big reminder not to take millionaires at face value. History has showed it ends in tears but so many were willing to overlook this for a vanity project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul hicks Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Damien said: One things for certain after this, if any club has skeletons in their closet admit them now and get the punishment out the way. Gary Hetherington admits he once gave a player £10 without declaring it . that's a strait relegation for Leeds then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wollo Wollo Wayoo Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Damien said: One things for certain after this, if any club has skeletons in their closet admit them now and get the punishment out the way. Like rebranding with some naff new logo? This world was never meant for one as beautiful as me. Wakefield Trinity RLFC 2012 - 2014 "The wasted years" 2013, 2014 & 2015 Official Magic Weekend "Whipping Boys" 2017 - The year the dream disappeared under Grix's left foot. 2018 - The FinniChezz Bromance 2019 - The Return of the Prodigal Son Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said: Like rebranding with some naff new logo? I think the club will be punished heavily for that as it is through merchandise sales, or more to the point a lack of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 £3.5 million according to this and Salford have been quite shameless when it comes to why now according to this: SALFORD have been docked three wins for failing to pay an old debt – but they think it may be a GOOD thing. The Red Devils have been punished the equivalent of six points, dropping them to 10th in the table, for collapsing a Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA). But insiders are adamant the short-term pain could lead to long-term gain as getting about £3.5 million worth of debt off the books would make them more attractive to potential investors. The CVA, believed to have been signed by one of the men bend Toronto's failed Super League bid, Martin Vickers, was drawn up by an old holding company and taken out almost a decade ago, as Marwan Koukash got involved with the club, and it is described as a ‘huge millstone.’ So bosses decided it was best to fail on it and take the punishment when relegation is off the table following Toronto Wolfpack’s withdrawal. https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/13098617/salford-docked-six-points-over-old-debt-but-that-could-be-a-good-thing/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Bankrupt clubs voting on other defaulting clubs about who stays in and gets £1.9m per year and who is kicked out and folds. What sort of ######### nuts is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Salford have played a blinder here defaulted in a season that doesn’t matter, and will start next year with a clean slate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE RED ROOSTER Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 I am sure the TRL Brains Trust will explain what happens to the accumilated debt held by the old company. Correct me if I am wrong what happens here is you dump your debt off to an old company and resurrecting the same business as a new enterprise debt free then default on your CVA agreement allowing the old company to be liquidated and your creditors get diddly squat. Sounds like financial chicanery. https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/9-385-9881?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true Quote When the pinch comes the common people will turn out to be more intelligent than the clever ones. I certainly hope so. George Orwell You either own NFTs or women’s phone numbers but not both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippet13 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Rupert Prince said: Are they a going concern now? Or are they bankrupt? Is the company in administration? You can faff around talking rubbish if you want... along with all the other headless chickens, but why not stick to some comparable facts instead of making them up. IS Salford a going concern? If they are bankrupt thats a different matter. And of course IF they are or you suggest they are bankrupt then and only then would any rescue plan need to be sanctioned by SL. Bradford and Widnes are salutary examples. Your ignorance is staggering. Any idiot can run a business as a going concern if they are allowed to write off their debts via dubious business practices. It sounds like Salford dodged Administration via a CVA, their debts went unpaid and some poor buggers somewhere suffered for it. Bradford and Widnes at least went into Administration and tried to pay off some of their debts. If Toronto had gone into a CVA this year, shifted their debts to a dodgy shell company and said, "look at us we are a debt free going concern" they would have (rightly) been crucified for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 48 minutes ago, Whippet13 said: Your ignorance is staggering. Any idiot can run a business as a going concern if they are allowed to write off their debts via dubious business practices. It sounds like Salford dodged Administration via a CVA, their debts went unpaid and some poor buggers somewhere suffered for it. Bradford and Widnes at least went into Administration and tried to pay off some of their debts. If Toronto had gone into a CVA this year, shifted their debts to a dodgy shell company and said, "look at us we are a debt free going concern" they would have (rightly) been crucified for it. The issue goes back to 2013. The RFL statement says that the event does not affect or impact on Salford City Reds (2013) or its creditor or debtors relationships. Its a viable going concern. Salford is playing its staff. Not like Toronto. So your ignorance that is staggering . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 hours ago, paul hicks said: a going concern normally pays its dues otherwise its just as much as a going concern as a failing bulls The RFL statement says that the financial issues do not impact Salford Reds (2013) debtors or creditors. Seem fairly plain to me. Back in 2013 12 points were deducted and 6 were in effect suspended, as i see it, for a period until former chairman paid the debt off. If the balance of 6 points had got Salford in a bottom of table situation - like Wigan Athletic - then presumably they would have been relegated. But financially this debt is nothing to do with Salford (2013) and never had been. All they had over them was the possibility of them losing 6 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiner Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 4 hours ago, dkw said: Oh man, with this and Hull KR "pulling a toronto" I'm now just waiting on finding out Wakefield isn't actually part of the UK and belongs to Indonesia... Well it is third world there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrisbaneRhino Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Sounds like a clever bit of financial engineering to me. As said, the new club had no financial liability attached to the debt, but did have the threat of losing 6 points - that was just leverage to try to make the 'new' Salford assist in repayments. In a normal season with promotion and relegation that would likely be a disaster, but this year its a gimme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattSantos Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 8 hours ago, Rupert Prince said: The issue goes back to 2013. The RFL statement says that the event does not affect or impact on Salford City Reds (2013) or its creditor or debtors relationships. Its a viable going concern. Salford is playing its staff. Not like Toronto. So your ignorance that is staggering . Salford receive SKY money, of course they're paying their players! A joke of a club and a symptom of a joke competition. Running the Rob Burrow marathon to raise money for the My Name'5 Doddie foundation: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ben-dyas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Willow Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I am sure the Council won't be happy as I think the majority of this debt is their loan. The other portion is probably the rent on the ground. this is the debt John Wilkinson was unable to meet. For those interested I am sure The Salford Star will do a ranting piece on this shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippet13 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 11 hours ago, Spidey said: Salford have played a blinder here defaulted in a season that doesn’t matter, and will start next year with a clean slate To minimise media scrutiny they have also immaculately timed the announcement for the exact point in the season where everyone is most distracted by the Toronto drama and the prospective12th team announcement. Stunningly Maciavellian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippet13 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 hour ago, MattSantos said: Salford receive SKY money, of course they're paying their players! A joke of a club and a symptom of a joke competition. Your wasting your time mate, he is being deliberately obtuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 9 hours ago, Rupert Prince said: If the balance of 6 points had got Salford in a bottom of table situation - like Wigan Athletic - then presumably they would have been relegated. The big difference is that the EFL explicitly sets out that points deduction will apply to have an effect. If Wigan Athletic had finished in the relegation zone anyway last season then the points deduction would have been applied this season and after their relegation, they would have started on -12. This is because the EFL know that by applying it in a season when the punishment is meaningless that it can be used as a means of avoiding financial responsibilities and wiping the clean clean. As is they finished outside the relegation zone so the points deduction applied and they were relegated. The equivalent in this situation would have been Salford starting next season on -6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, Red Willow said: I am sure the Council won't be happy as I think the majority of this debt is their loan. The other portion is probably the rent on the ground. this is the debt John Wilkinson was unable to meet. For those interested I am sure The Salford Star will do a ranting piece on this shortly. Is that a free sheet? If this were so important for the loan to be paid or not why was the points deduction made immediately? That then would gave relegated Salford back then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Damien said: The big difference is that the EFL explicitly sets out that points deduction will apply to have an effect. If Wigan Athletic had finished in the relegation zone anyway last season then the points deduction would have been applied this season and after their relegation, they would have started on -12. This is because the EFL know that by applying it in a season when the punishment is meaningless that it can be used as a means of avoiding financial responsibilities and wiping the clean clean. As is they finished outside the relegation zone so the points deduction applied and they were relegated. The equivalent in this situation would have been Salford starting next season on -6. That wont matter go Salford anyway next season because the league structure is going to change after that. (lets be realistic!) And if the 6pts deduction had taken place at the start of this season, Salford would not have got relegated. They still would have finished above Hull KR. But the 12 points were not awarded... simple as that... the RL didnt. And Salford (2013) carried on. Thats the fact and there is no linkage to Toronto. The hysterics need to get a life. They prefer a half baked Toronto and a broken backed RL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derk Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 which three salford wins will be crossed off.these should then be reversed in favour of the teams they beat and the league table rearranged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Willow Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 32 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said: Is that a free sheet? If this were so important for the loan to be paid or not why was the points deduction made immediately? That then would gave relegated Salford back then? Think it is just on line. They only have one style ranting. Salford had part of initial punishment delayed to serve as an incentive to meet the terms of the CVA. They have been on a payment holiday for years. The 3 years ended this month and payments were due, hence the non compliance notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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