The Future is League Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 6 hours ago, Wildcat said: You really are most desperate for Cas and Wakey to be relegated aren't you?! Remind me how many years Wakey have been promising the RFL a new ground or a revamped Belle Vue? At least 20 years and still the wait goes on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, The Future is League said: Selling some of his stake in the club suggests otherwise Tell you what. You reveal your sources and I'll reveal mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 7 hours ago, M j M said: I would say it is a sign of how absolutely fuming Hetherington and McManus must be that they'd act to remove Elstone in the middle of the tv negotiations with the signals that note would send to external parties. Pure and simple they have no confidence in him. Of course if he can negotiate a good TV deal they might look at him more favourably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 1 minute ago, JohnM said: Tell you what. You reveal your sources and I'll reveal mine. Did not Lehegan sell some of his shares in Wigan? If you are a shareholder in a club why would you sell some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Interesting comments in LE that the pursuit of private equity investment has led to a commitment to pay £750k whether or not the deal goes ahead. Does this come out of the £1.6M bail out or will it be extra? Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, The Future is League said: Pure and simple they have no confidence in him. Of course if he can negotiate a good TV deal they might look at him more favourably. All the reports say that he hasn't but is currently unwilling to reveal the details to the SL chairmen until he has made his final plea to Sky. That deal will be very interesting when finally disclosed. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said: All the reports say that he hasn't but is currently unwilling to reveal the details to the SL chairmen until he has made his final plea to Sky. That deal will be very interesting when finally disclosed. So he's unwilling to inform his employers (The Super League chairmen) details of his negotiations or lack of them with Sky. That must be going down well with them then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 1 hour ago, The Future is League said: Remind me how many years Wakey have been promising the RFL a new ground or a revamped Belle Vue? At least 20 years and still the wait goes on Thanks for the confirmation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 13 hours ago, Wildcat said: Thanks for the confirmation. So Wakey lied about a refurb or a new ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREPOSTEROUS Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, The Future is League said: So Wakey lied about a refurb or a new ground. Yes they did, and the RFL are falling for it big time. Keep it to yourself though. Dont wan't them finding out after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 14 hours ago, Blind side johnny said: Interesting comments in LE that the pursuit of private equity investment has led to a commitment to pay £750k whether or not the deal goes ahead. Does this come out of the £1.6M bail out or will it be extra? I read about the 750 a few days ago somewhere. I doubt the 1.6 can be used for anything but remuneration but paying for the PE and them getting involved with the game, imho, is desperate. SL chairmen who are businessmen, will know how PEs operate, which confuses me as to whether the decision to commit the resources was their choice or Elstones. I fear this will all end in tears. Certain that Elstone will get kicked out. The knives are in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookey Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 It seems that Elstone almost certainly wont have his contract renewed,just a matter of how much damage he does before he leaves. Wonder if he'll move into Private Equity? So far,£750,000 non refundable costs spent,which will probably double to £1.5 mill. This means SL will have to do a deal with PE,reportably for less than £50 mill. P.E. get 51% control of SL and it seems around 30% of future income. So each club gets around £4 mill or less.That wouldn't even be enough for a single new stand at Cas or Wakefield. What will that money be used for,any restrictions? Probably not,so probably used to slightly reduce existing debt. Which clubs can survive on 30% less income than they currently receive? Will any clubs have to invest in their crumbling grounds,before paying off existing owners? Which clubs will be elbowed out of SL and who will replace them? Any new club wont get any of the capital but will be expected to get by on reduced income. Anyone in the know,please tell me what I am missing from this summary. Martyn are you reading.PE almost exclusively buy into companies in crisis,they never buy into strong,solvent,successful companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, cookey said: It seems that Elstone almost certainly wont have his contract renewed,just a matter of how much damage he does before he leaves. Wonder if he'll move into Private Equity? So far,£750,000 non refundable costs spent,which will probably double to £1.5 mill. This means SL will have to do a deal with PE,reportably for less than £50 mill. P.E. get 51% control of SL and it seems around 30% of future income. So each club gets around £4 mill or less.That wouldn't even be enough for a single new stand at Cas or Wakefield. What will that money be used for,any restrictions? Probably not,so probably used to slightly reduce existing debt. Which clubs can survive on 30% less income than they currently receive? Will any clubs have to invest in their crumbling grounds,before paying off existing owners? Which clubs will be elbowed out of SL and who will replace them? Any new club wont get any of the capital but will be expected to get by on reduced income. Anyone in the know,please tell me what I am missing from this summary. Martyn are you reading.PE almost exclusively buy into companies in crisis,they never buy into strong,solvent,successful companies. The PE solution is a disaster but the one which has been suggested is a bigger disaster than most. It just can't be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 21 minutes ago, cookey said: It seems that Elstone almost certainly wont have his contract renewed,just a matter of how much damage he does before he leaves. Wonder if he'll move into Private Equity? So far,£750,000 non refundable costs spent,which will probably double to £1.5 mill. This means SL will have to do a deal with PE,reportably for less than £50 mill. P.E. get 51% control of SL and it seems around 30% of future income. So each club gets around £4 mill or less.That wouldn't even be enough for a single new stand at Cas or Wa7kefield. What will that money be used for,any restrictions? Probably not,so probably used to slightly reduce existing debt. Which clubs can survive on 30% less income than they currently receive? Will any clubs have to invest in their crumbling grounds,before paying off existing owners? Which clubs will be elbowed out of SL and who will replace them? Any new club wont get any of the capital but will be expected to get by on reduced income. Anyone in the know,please tell me what I am missing from this summary. Martyn are you reading.PE almost exclusively buy into companies in crisis,they never buy into strong,solvent,successful companies. "It seems that Elstone almost certainly wont have his contract renewed" Hmmm. .what evidence is there for that? "PE almost exclusively buy into companies in crisis,they never buy into strong,solvent,successful companies." I can understand that. What is more important, though is the track record in turning those companies round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookey Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, M j M said: The PE solution is a disaster but the one which has been suggested is a bigger disaster than most. It just can't be true. Hi,I totally agree with you which is why I'm hoping someone with more specific knowledge than me,will tell me what I'm missing. Unfortunately,I tend to believe the reporting of Totalrl more than the competance of Elstone. A genuine question,would Elstone be entitled to a bonus for negotiating a transaction,any transaction? i.e a percentage of the capital raised. Incidentally,I have two family members,a brother and neice,who both work in PE in Green Park,London. Neither are directly involved but neither understand the basis of the transaction I have outlined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 16 hours ago, The Future is League said: Pure and simple they have no confidence in him. Of course if he can negotiate a good TV deal they might look at him more favourably. On the other hand does anybody have any confidence in Hetherington? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, cookey said: Hi,I totally agree with you which is why I'm hoping someone with more specific knowledge than me,will tell me what I'm missing. Unfortunately,I tend to believe the reporting of Totalrl more than the competance of Elstone. A genuine question,would Elstone be entitled to a bonus for negotiating a transaction,any transaction? i.e a percentage of the capital raised. Incidentally,I have two family members,a brother and neice,who both work in PE in Green Park,London. Neither are directly involved but neither understand the basis of the transaction I have outlined. High chance Elstone would negotiate a completion bonus for himself for selling SL I'd have thought. It's not true that PE only look at companies in trouble. They go for all sorts of things, including for example family owned businesses looking for big backing to fund expansion plans which is how on good days SL probably view themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Just now, Rupert Prince said: On the other hand does anybody have any confidence in Hetherington? Well given his long-proven competence at running clubs at a profit, his track record of introducing and keeping major sponsors and that time he saved the RFL when it was going bust I think the answer is yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 46 minutes ago, cookey said: It seems that Elstone almost certainly wont have his contract renewed,just a matter of how much damage he does before he leaves. Wonder if he'll move into Private Equity? So far,£750,000 non refundable costs spent,which will probably double to £1.5 mill. This means SL will have to do a deal with PE,reportably for less than £50 mill. P.E. get 51% control of SL and it seems around 30% of future income. So each club gets around £4 mill or less.That wouldn't even be enough for a single new stand at Cas or Wakefield. What will that money be used for,any restrictions? Probably not,so probably used to slightly reduce existing debt. Which clubs can survive on 30% less income than they currently receive? Will any clubs have to invest in their crumbling grounds,before paying off existing owners? Which clubs will be elbowed out of SL and who will replace them? Any new club wont get any of the capital but will be expected to get by on reduced income. Anyone in the know,please tell me what I am missing from this summary. Martyn are you reading.PE almost exclusively buy into companies in crisis,they never buy into strong,solvent,successful companies. "Income" ??? Investment allows expenditure which creates income. The bottom line hopefully leaves profit. Its profit that comes out of investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookey Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 23 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said: On the other hand does anybody have any confidence in Hetherington? Elstone may well have better academic qualifications but I would take Hetheringtons 'street wise' knowledge over Elstone any day. Hetherington has run the most financially successful and stable SL club for the past 20 odd years. Hetheringtons committment to rl can not be challenged,quite what Elstone is up to I really dont know. I'm only going by what has been reported but if it makes sense to anyone,based on the reported figures,I'd be delighted to be informed. It seems the Clubs/owners receive a relatively insignificant amount of money,they lose control of SL and receive considerably less future income,as a percentage. Therefore the only explanation,is that this relatively insignificant amount of money,transforms clubs fortunes or PE somehow magically convince Sky or BT to offer vastly increased money or they attract sponsors /owners,willing to 'invest' money into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Streetwise knowledge Mmmmmm! Like most threads myth, conjecture, misconception are all rule rather than exceptions. Picking someone from inside the game has always led to accusations of bias and favouritism. There's a reason Elstone crushed the vote through the support of clubs. 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 13 minutes ago, cookey said: Elstone may well have better academic qualifications but I would take Hetheringtons 'street wise' knowledge over Elstone any day. Hetherington has run the most financially successful and stable SL club for the past 20 odd years. Hetheringtons committment to rl can not be challenged,quite what Elstone is up to I really dont know. I'm only going by what has been reported but if it makes sense to anyone,based on the reported figures,I'd be delighted to be informed. It seems the Clubs/owners receive a relatively insignificant amount of money,they lose control of SL and receive considerably less future income,as a percentage. Therefore the only explanation,is that this relatively insignificant amount of money,transforms clubs fortunes or PE somehow magically convince Sky or BT to offer vastly increased money or they attract sponsors /owners,willing to 'invest' money into the game. I dont trust Hetherington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 57 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said: I dont trust Hetherington. Great, well let's entrust the future of the game to your spidey senses then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 42 minutes ago, M j M said: Great, well let's entrust the future of the game to your spidey senses then. No need to imagine. He voted to keep the Super Eights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLANTISMAN Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 So the bottom line is all this is going to do is bailout (On a temporary basis) the skint clubs. GH is no fool nor is Eamon McManus who has a banking background. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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