State of origin expansion

[Jean de Bordeaux]

7 hours ago, The Rocket said:

If the Kiwis could match it with us on a regular basis there is absolutely no reason at all why it couldn`t be as big as the Bledisloe, we just beat them too often and too easily for the Australian public to take them seriously.

I`ve always said that if they would only put as much effort into their game as they do into the Haka they might win a few more. 

On reflection, that probably sums up our attitude towards the Kiwis.

Yes, I understand . Perhaps the solution is to arrange a series between the Kiwis and the Islanders in parallel to the SOO.

(With a Final Game between the two winners ???)

[fighting irish]

42 minutes ago, Jean de Bordeaux said:

Yes, I understand . Perhaps the solution is to arrange a series between the Kiwis and the Islanders in parallel to the SOO.

(With a Final Game between the two winners ???)

That's a good idea mate. 

[Sports Prophet]

wrong post

[emesssea]

10 hours ago, The Rocket said:

If the Kiwis could match it with us on a regular basis there is absolutely no reason at all why it couldn`t be as big as the Bledisloe, we just beat them too often and too easily for the Australian public to take them seriously.

I`ve always said that if they would only put as much effort into their game as they do into the Haka they might win a few more. 

On reflection, that probably sums up our attitude towards the Kiwis.

Kind of ironic since doesnt New Zealand regularly beat Australia for the Bleisloe.....

As far as your comment about SOO ratings declining over the past 20 years, how do those figures compare to NRL ratings during that same time frame? Curious to see if it really is SOO or like with a lot of countries, sports overall are seeing a decline compared to x amount of years ago

[The Rocket]

4 hours ago, Jean de Bordeaux said:

Yes, I understand . Perhaps the solution is to arrange a series between the Kiwis and the Islanders in parallel to the SOO.

(With a Final Game between the two winners ???)

11 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

You are right also. The NRL is already looking how to compliment SOO. That is why we have seen the experiment of a rep weekend including SOO. They will continue to experiment, I suspect we may soon see an experiment of back to back weekends for SOO in mid season, coupled with a Tri-Nations series. My hope is that this will be followed by a fourth weekend with Australia v the Tri Nations winner.

Couple of things, in the past we`ve had the Poms over or played the Kiwis after SOO and generally it has been a disaster, after three SOO`s they would pick the Aussie side, mostly from the winning team which would have all the SOO battle hardened combinations plus the players that just can`t be left out from the losing side, because they were so damn good, like Mark Gasnier coming into a backline that included Thurston, Inglis, Slater, whoever they played were absolutely on a hiding to nothing and that is what generally happened.

The Kiwis always go better against us if we play them in a series because they get to play together a few times, form combinations etc. More than ever a parallel Tri-Series, as you both point out, could offer that for them, i.e. to play a few games together before they played us, especially now that they would have some decent opposition so they could get that battle hardened edge that our players have after coming out of Origin. Crickey, we`re at the point now, where who knows maybe Tonga, Samoa, PNG or Fiji might beat them and earn the right to play us. It`s a great situation to be in.

Only one fly in the ointment that I can see, there are players in the Origin sides that are eligible to play for the Pacific Nations teams, and probably if those teams are going to be at their best they need those players in them like Daniel Saifiti, Staggs , if not injured, Xavier Coates and probably some of those other blokes of Islander origin. Having said that, I suppose after SOO those blokes could slot back into their respective `home` nations team, but they would be at a disadvantage against the Kiwi team, who of course don`t have that problem, unless your name is Tony Carroll, but anyway, there is no doubt there is the real potential as you point out SP and Jean, for a very interesting month of football , only question is. When do you play it ?

 

[The Rocket]

23 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

When I read "expanding state of origin," I thought we were thinking about including Victoria, Western Australia, South Australia and Northern Territory!

Would be an interesting little round robin tournament to run on the same days, anyway!

I really like that idea Wellsey, I`ve seen a bit of interstate football this year and it goes o.k. and can only imagine the promo it would be for League in those States, they are already getting crowds of 8000+ for their GF`s, I`d imagine they could beat that easily especially if there were  some NRL players that could come back and boost their squad. Goodwin Bros. for WA. Crickey Widdop could play for Victoria, ha ha. And I`m sure I`ve heard of other players from N.T. Anyway even without those players from the standard I`ve seen in their comps they would still put together pretty handy sides, it would be a nice little side show to run along aforementioned tournaments.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

7 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

I really like that idea Wellsey, I`ve seen a bit of interstate football this year and it goes o.k. and can only imagine the promo it would be for League in those States, they are already getting crowds of 8000+ for their GF`s, I`d imagine they could beat that easily especially if there were  some NRL players that could come back and boost their squad. Goodwin Bros. for WA. Crickey Widdop could play for Victoria, ha ha. And I`m sure I`ve heard of other players from N.T. Anyway even without those players from the standard I`ve seen in their comps they would still put together pretty handy sides, it would be a nice little side show to run along aforementioned tournaments.

I'd just be intrigued to see where rugby league is strongest in Australia outside of the big 2.

[unapologetic pedant]

12 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

 

We could argue till the cows come home the positives and negatives of getting a good dust up every weekend or so in our sport, but it’s moot, because it no longer happens and with it, there is an intensity and personality that is missing in the sport these days. People can debate also, but there is no more partisan RL contest on this planet (today) than SOO, so of course it is affected when the spill over to a blue every now and then is no longer an expected part of the game.

To declare an interest, I always regarded any biff as boorish and boring. I`d be more likely to switch over and only return when the players displayed an interest in playing football.

In the UK violence in RL was generally seen as comical, with the BBC`s Saturday afternoon games their alternative to ITV`s town hall wrestling shenanigans. The image all that created for RL is a legacy we still have to contend with. It was a similar hostage to fortune depicting cheap shots and brawls as integral to the appeal of SOO.

The way the game is now played doesn`t help. When viewers are watching a team truck the ball up from deep with no intent beyond completing the set, they can be forgiven for hoping a big biffo would erupt. If teams were using more ball movement in their own half, people would be less inclined to want that interrupted by mixed martial arts.

[The Rocket]

1 minute ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I'd just be intrigued to see where rugby league is strongest in Australia outside of the big 2.

That`s a good question, I know they have two comps in Victoria which is a good sign but I`m not sure of the standard. But I can tell you that the standard is pretty good in WA and NT but they only have small comps. As far as raw numbers and juniors, I`m not sure mate, but I`ll try to find out, would be interested myself now that you`ve bought it up.

[unapologetic pedant]

3 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I'd just be intrigued to see where rugby league is strongest in Australia outside of the big 2.

For a long time WA were dominant in the affiliated States championship, but Victoria beat them in last year`s comp in men`s, women`s, under-18s boys and under-16s girls. Vic have been the strongest in boys under-18s for about a decade.

So the current pecking order is Vic, WA, NT. South Australia are comfortably the weakest, although curiously NRL FTA TV ratings are generally higher in Adelaide than Perth.

[The Rocket]

38 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

To declare an interest, I always regarded any biff as boorish and boring. I`d be more likely to switch over and only return when the players displayed an interest in playing football.

In the UK violence in RL was generally seen as comical, with the BBC`s Saturday afternoon games their alternative to ITV`s town hall wrestling shenanigans. The image all that created for RL is a legacy we still have to contend with. It was a similar hostage to fortune depicting cheap shots and brawls as integral to the appeal of SOO.

The way the game is now played doesn`t help. When viewers are watching a team truck the ball up from deep with no intent beyond completing the set, they can be forgiven for hoping a big biffo would erupt. If teams were using more ball movement in their own half, people would be less inclined to want that interrupted by mixed martial arts.

I can`t talk for long now as I have to get outside and do a bit of work, but to be frank League is a very violent game often played by men who grew up in cultures where a lot of things are settled by violence or threat of violence. Most players are not like that. But you have to remember it only takes a couple for a fight to break out.

But given the heavy contact nature of our sport it runs a very fine line with being a legalised form of violence. And therefore it is not surprising when in big matches when National or State pride is on the line it tips over into something you would get arrested for anywhere else. The violence that erupted into old SOO matches had nothing to do with the quality of the football, just two testosterone laden teams  desperately doing anything to get over the other. Don`t get me wrong though, I`m just saying in that earlier post that if we ever got back to the stage where Australias domination was on the line I wouldn`t be surprised to see the occasional outbreak of as Barrie McDermott warned the Australians in a Test Match once," next scrum it`s on.". As I said it only takes a couple of hotheads.

Thanks for the above post, fancy a Pommie  knowing more about Aussie League than a local. Good to see that the Storm may be making a bit of progress developing the game, I`m sure it`s `a hard row to hoe `down there.

[unapologetic pedant]

2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 

Thanks for the above post, fancy a Pommie  knowing more about Aussie League than a local. Good to see that the Storm may be making a bit of progress developing the game, I`m sure it`s `a hard row to hoe `down there.

Would be nice to think that the Storm have been implementing a masterplan. I`m sure their presence and success helps.

However, look at pictures of any Victorian RL team and it will be immediately apparent that by far and away the most significant factor is Maori and Pacific Islander migration to Melbourne.

[Mr Frisky]

On 04/11/2020 at 17:40, paul hicks said:

i feel that if origin was to be played outside of Australia then perhaps china would be the place it would go with the audience it would reach  rather than a little lump of land off the coast of Europe 

Yep I'm sure all those Chinese RL fans are putting a petition together right now to get it staged in their country......

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

3 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Would be nice to think that the Storm have been implementing a masterplan. I`m sure their presence and success helps.

However, look at pictures of any Victorian RL team and it will be immediately apparent that by far and away the most significant factor is Maori and Pacific Islander migration to Melbourne.

With their 4 Championships, 4 Minor Premierships, and 3 World Club Challenge trophies they are doing ok. I think we put far too much emphasis on teams in new areas producing their own players. Be it Melbourne Storm, Catalans, Toronto, West Wales Raiders or Newcastle Thunder, obviously producing their own players is good but if they don’t it’s not the end of the World.

If they are a strong club with a decent following that makes them sustainable and that’s more important. Once the clubs been in existence for 100+ years you’d expect them to be producing plenty of players, but in the early days it’s not so important.

[Mr Frisky]

2 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

With their 4 Championships, 4 Minor Premierships, and 3 World Club Challenge trophies they are doing ok. I think we put far too much emphasis on teams in new areas producing their own players. Be it Melbourne Storm, Catalans, Toronto, West Wales Raiders or Newcastle Thunder, obviously producing their own players is good but if they don’t it’s not the end of the World.

If they are a strong club with a decent following that makes them sustainable and that’s more important. Once the clubs been in existence for 100+ years you’d expect them to be producing plenty of players, but in the early days it’s not so important.

Its 2 WCC wins not 3.

[The Rocket]

22 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Yep I'm sure all those Chinese RL fans are putting a petition together right now to get it staged in their country......

The afl held a game there every year for a while now, they combine it with a trade display day where Aussie farmers can show their produce, the Chinese love Australian produce because they think we don`t use a lot of chemicals or at least it`s  known what chemicals get used, unlike their own, the whole thing is a great idea in principle but the funny thing is they reckon the queues around the seafood stalls are 20 deep and no one is watching the football.

[The Rocket]

58 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Be it Melbourne Storm, Catalans, Toronto, West Wales Raiders or Newcastle Thunder, obviously producing their own players is good but if they don’t it’s not the end of the World.

If they are a strong club with a decent following that makes them sustainable and that’s more important. Once the clubs been in existence for 100+ years you’d expect them to be producing plenty of players, but in the early days it’s not so important.

Hit the nail on the head, we have to get this idea out of our head that a club has to be producing players, there is loads and loads of talent out there to fill rosters and it`s only going to increase once the Islands, PNG and even NZ come on line. As you said financially secure, well supported and successful enough for fans to stay on board is ample for any club, how many juniors do the Roosters produce do you think.

n.b. you asked a question elsewhere recently about the funding that lower League teams receive in OZ, in NSW the State is divided into Groups, there are about 18? each with about 6-12 teams in each Groups` competition, one level below NSW Cup in turn the level below NRL, therefore equivalent to your League 1. I spoke to a bloke who runs our local Group yesterday and he assured me that the Group does not receive one cent from the NRL, the GF winner does, but that`s it, everything else is raised through sponsors and game day revenue, as he said to me most of the blokes wouldn`t play if they didn`t get paid and he was quite bitter that they get no help at all.

[Copa]

9 hours ago, emesssea said:

Kind of ironic since doesnt New Zealand regularly beat Australia for the Bleisloe.....

As far as your comment about SOO ratings declining over the past 20 years, how do those figures compare to NRL ratings during that same time frame? Curious to see if it really is SOO or like with a lot of countries, sports overall are seeing a decline compared to x amount of years ago

20 years ago we didn’t have people watching one of the 10,000 plus YouTube channels on high speed internet or very immersive computer games. People can grow up now surrounded by all types of media that never mentions sport at all.

[Rupert Prince]

With so many Islanders playing for Origin and qualifying for their own nations...  what is the point of "Origin"?

[Farmduck]

8 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

With so many Islanders playing for Origin and qualifying for their own nations...  what is the point of "Origin"?

They might play it for the NSW and Qld fans who fund RL in Australia. Just a thought. The other possibility is money. If the RFL could generate the same sort of crowds, money and TV audiences from Yorks v Lancs, you can bet that would still be happening.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

13 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

With so many Islanders playing for Origin and qualifying for their own nations...  what is the point of "Origin"?

What’s the point of Origin? It can sell out any stadium in Australia and gets the highest tv ratings over there for any sporting fixture. I’m not sure the point of origin can be questioned, players can qualify for more than 1 Nation, this is not headline news.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

40 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Hit the nail on the head, we have to get this idea out of our head that a club has to be producing players, there is loads and loads of talent out there to fill rosters and it`s only going to increase once the Islands, PNG and even NZ come on line. As you said financially secure, well supported and successful enough for fans to stay on board is ample for any club, how many juniors do the Roosters produce do you think.

n.b. you asked a question elsewhere recently about the funding that lower League teams receive in OZ, in NSW the State is divided into Groups, there are about 18? each with about 6-12 teams in each Groups` competition, one level below NSW Cup in turn the level below NRL, therefore equivalent to your League 1. I spoke to a bloke who runs our local Group yesterday and he assured me that the Group does not receive one cent from the NRL, the GF winner does, but that`s it, everything else is raised through sponsors and game day revenue, as he said to me most of the blokes wouldn`t play if they didn`t get paid and he was quite bitter that they get no help at all.

Very surprising to hear they receive no funding when the NRL takes in so much money. How do they pay their players and fund the club. Is it purely through match day tickets and local sponsorships or do they have owners than bankroll losses?
I’d be really interested to know what New South Wales Cup and Queensland Cup sides get in terms of funding from the NRL.

[Rupert Prince]

38 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

What’s the point of Origin? It can sell out any stadium in Australia and gets the highest tv ratings over there for any sporting fixture. I’m not sure the point of origin can be questioned, players can qualify for more than 1 Nation, this is not headline news.

"Origin "??

[Copa]

40 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Very surprising to hear they receive no funding when the NRL takes in so much money. How do they pay their players and fund the club. Is it purely through match day tickets and local sponsorships or do they have owners than bankroll losses?
I’d be really interested to know what New South Wales Cup and Queensland Cup sides get in terms of funding from the NRL.

A lot of those clubs below the NSW Cup get funding from smaller leagues clubs or other type of community club plus sponsorship, gate takings etc.

A good suburban player can get $15k a season.

[Sports Prophet]

10 hours ago, The Rocket said:

That`s a good question, I know they have two comps in Victoria which is a good sign but I`m not sure of the standard. But I can tell you that the standard is pretty good in WA and NT but they only have small comps. As far as raw numbers and juniors, I`m not sure mate, but I`ll try to find out, would be interested myself now that you`ve bought it up.

It’s WA