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State of origin expansion


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Looks like it bombed on TV, so maybe back to mid-season for 2021.

Although lots of people probably expected a NSW walkover so maybe didn't bother tuning in:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/worst-national-television-ratings-in-state-of-origin-history-20201105-p56bqc.html

Be interesting to see the game 2 ratings next week.

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1 hour ago, Whippet13 said:

Looks like it bombed on TV, so maybe back to mid-season for 2021.

Although lots of people probably expected a NSW walkover so maybe didn't bother tuning in:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/worst-national-television-ratings-in-state-of-origin-history-20201105-p56bqc.html

Be interesting to see the game 2 ratings next week.

I think the US election may have played a factor!

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6 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

Be interesting to see the game 2 ratings next week.

Agreed.

Either way, it's not coming to the UK.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Looks like Matty Johns has had a similarly bizarre idea:-

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/state-of-origin/state-of-origin-2020-nsw-blues-v-queensland-maroons-matty-johns-old-trafford-fourth-origin-game-decider/news-story/4a077f27dddee65bd0289b3811d9d017

Quote

“The first place you’d do it, before the World Cup next year and go and play it at Old Trafford, Manchester. Simon Moran, the Warrington Wolves owner who is the big rock promoter.

“I asked him how long would it take to sell it out?

“He said: ‘an hour’. If you want to promote the game you do it as a world event, you do it before the World Cup next year.

Putting aside any issues with playing another game of RL at Old Trafford, it wouldn't sell out in 'an hour'. In fact, I doubt it would sell out at all.

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15 hours ago, Damien said:

I think the OP overestimates how many people have even heard of State of Origin or care about it outside of RL circles.

Expand that to the whole of RL in the UK, Damien.

I spent a lifetime travelling the length and breadth of these fair isles in my profession and would shove the game at every opportunity to anyone who would listen, more than half didn't realise  there was two types of Rugby and even with the amount of yawnion that is on the screens and in the papers these days I doubt that has changed very much.

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33 minutes ago, thirteenthman said:

Looks like Matty Johns has had a similarly bizarre idea:-

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/state-of-origin/state-of-origin-2020-nsw-blues-v-queensland-maroons-matty-johns-old-trafford-fourth-origin-game-decider/news-story/4a077f27dddee65bd0289b3811d9d017

Putting aside any issues with playing another game of RL at Old Trafford, it wouldn't sell out in 'an hour'. In fact, I doubt it would sell out at all.

I think you are very wrong

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17 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Expand that to the whole of RL in the UK, Damien.

I spent a lifetime travelling the length and breadth of these fair isles in my profession and would shove the game at every opportunity to anyone who would listen, more than half didn't realise  there was two types of Rugby and even with the amount of yawnion that is on the screens and in the papers these days I doubt that has changed very much.

Im much of the same opinion as i have talked until im blue in the face about the game , what i do know is we need innovation   progression and promotion of our sport because history clearly tells us know one else will help us.

I m sure SOO wont ever leave Aus but im confident it would be a sucess if it did

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15 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I will watch and enjoy any quality game of Rugby League and State of Origin is absolutely included in that category.  But as a spectacle, it has fallen away in recent years. 

The physical nature of the contest set it aside from any other game and even if you were not from either Queensland or NSW you still got drawn into the intensity and the gladiatorial element.  But to be honest, that differentiator doesn't really exist any more.  The game this morning was no more physical than the NRL finals series that we just witnessed and not a step up in class either... there were some pretty poor performers on both teams.

There used to be two reasons why State of Origin was so important... one, it mattered so much to the two states involved and two, it was undoubtedly the highest quality Rugby League on the planet for the decades.  While the former is still the case, I am not sure about the latter now.

As others have mentioned, if you are not a Rugby League fan and not from Queensland or NSW (or Australia overall), just what is it about State of Origin that we would expect to capture the imagination of the wider public that test match rugby wouldn't?

Do you not consider how the sanitising of the game has had some bearing on the 'physical' nature of the contest, and it was always said that the referring was much more lenient to any other Rugby League played in Australia. Kaufusi would never have recieved 10 mins under the 'allowed' intensity the game was played years ago.

What you are doing is comparing two different era's, somewhat like saying Test Match Rugby League is not as intense as once was, the last test of the Old School that was played which we will never see the likes of again was the 3rd v New Zealand in '85, today that same game would have 3 or 4 per side at the final whistle, and the crowd and TV audience were mentally as involved as fhe player's, I loved watching RL as it was at the top level but could never have played in it, the player's were a different breed to normal people, but they were allowed to get on with the game, every bit the very same as Origin was a different game to the rest of the Aussie season. 

 

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25 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Do you not consider how the sanitising of the game has had some bearing on the 'physical' nature of the contest, and it was always said that the referring was much more lenient to any other Rugby League played in Australia. Kaufusi would never have recieved 10 mins under the 'allowed' intensity the game was played years ago.

What you are doing is comparing two different era's, somewhat like saying Test Match Rugby League is not as intense as once was, the last test of the Old School that was played which we will never see the likes of again was the 3rd v New Zealand in '85, today that same game would have 3 or 4 per side at the final whistle, and the crowd and TV audience were mentally as involved as fhe player's, I loved watching RL as it was at the top level but could never have played in it, the player's were a different breed to normal people, but they were allowed to get on with the game, every bit the very same as Origin was a different game to the rest of the Aussie season. 

 

Yes, I believe that the way the game is refereed has had a massive impact on SOO.  State of Origin used to be different to a club game of Rugby - it was more intense, it was tougher and it was a higher quality... and in part that was because the players were given more leeway within the laws (the tougher part anyway).

I know why it has changed and I accept that it probably had to change but it is now just a 'normal' game of Rugby with that extra physical element removed.

And then you come to the quality.  As I have said many times, almost all of the best players in the Australian league played SOO in the 80's, 90's and 00's.  Now, I really don't think that Queensland and NSW are too far ahead of the top club teams (if at all).

The game will always appeal to the NSW and Queensland public as they are emotionally involved but the edge it had over other games has gone and now it is just another Aussie game.

I hadn't realized quite how big the downward trend in audience figures was until the post above which showed it was a million down in 2019 from its 2004 peak.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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I can recall vividly standing on the hill at the SCG in the mud and poring rain that night that Wally Lewis`s drop goal rebounded of the cross bar and landed in Greg Dowlings arms and he fell over the line and scored, I can`t over state the rabid hatred every time Wally got the ball that night, Wally would get the ball and the crowd would be on its feet baying for blood  and screaming expletives. In those days Queenslanders were something from the north who had the audacity to come down here and defeat our best, our heroes, these no names and then to rub salt into the wound getting picked for Australia over our players. It was really not much short of hatred and the players took it onto the field.

The entrance of Queensland teams and players into the competition has allayed that sense of us and them, it`s not so easy to hate these players, when you see their magic week in week out , the Inglis`s, Thuston`s , Lockyers et. al. Had the competitions stayed separate perhaps some of that partisanship would remain, as is, it`s very hard to manufacture.

 

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2 hours ago, iangidds said:

Im much of the same opinion as i have talked until im blue in the face about the game , what i do know is we need innovation   progression and promotion of our sport because history clearly tells us know one else will help us.

I m sure SOO wont ever leave Aus but im confident it would be a sucess if it did

I am sure that there are enough Rugby League fans like me who have watched State of Origin from afar for 30 odd years to sell out one of our grounds if it came over here. Maybe once.

But really, what would that achieve?  Would two teams from half a world away playing here really do anything for the game in the UK.  And what it would do is continue the decline of SOO in Australia as it is being peddled around the world instead of the in the NSW and Queensland heartlands where it should be played because the fans there are the one's that passionately care about the outcome of the match.

In so many ways, it is sad and dispiriting that we think two states (which most UK probably people couldn't identify on a map of Australia) would resonate with the wider sporting public over here.  What matters in sport is identifying with the team... your club, your state and your country.  Is it any wonder that most people in the UK think that Rugby Union is bigger than League in Australia when England play the Wallabies to packed houses at Twickenham and we haven't seen the Kangaroos over here is however long it has been.

Hopefully the World Cup next year will provide the reawakening we need for Rugby League in this country by showing so many great and entertaining international teams.  Now that will capture the wider public's imagination.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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I guess I'm missing something... but I never watch SOO and wouldn't go and watch a game here...  mind you I never watch NRL either. I have no allegiance  what so ever to NRL.  I recognize its the top level of RL nowadays based upon what's said in this forum.

I'm guessing I am in a minority.

Maybe it would sell... would need a fairr amount behind the marketing/advertising.  It took many years for NFL to get to sell out games here.

I guess you would have to ensure the game is a series decider and hope/ensure no team gets 3-0... to help the decider aspect that article mentions.

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23 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I will watch and enjoy any quality game of Rugby League and State of Origin is absolutely included in that category.  But as a spectacle, it has fallen away in recent years. 

The physical nature of the contest set it aside from any other game and even if you were not from either Queensland or NSW you still got drawn into the intensity and the gladiatorial element.  But to be honest, that differentiator doesn't really exist any more.  The game this morning was no more physical than the NRL finals series that we just witnessed and not a step up in class either... there were some pretty poor performers on both teams.

There used to be two reasons why State of Origin was so important... one, it mattered so much to the two states involved and two, it was undoubtedly the highest quality Rugby League on the planet for the decades.  While the former is still the case, I am not sure about the latter now.

As others have mentioned, if you are not a Rugby League fan and not from Queensland or NSW (or Australia overall), just what is it about State of Origin that we would expect to capture the imagination of the wider public that test match rugby wouldn't?

Correct.  It was a good average game.  And as for 'Origin' and State... thats diluted.    The 6 Nations is diluted in the same way with players from overseas qualifying by residence for 3 years.

The game the other day was interesting enough, but NSW looked like it was an arthritic Van Gogh painting with numbers.  

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SOO in UK achieves absolutely nothing of real value on its own.

I would like to see Origin over 3 back to back weekends with a single Kangaroos fixture against the winner of a three test series between the highest two ranked nations on the fourth. A full four weeks of representative football in the mid season. Perhaps to entertain this idea of Origin abroad, that every four years the third game of Origin is in the UK and the best players stay as the Kangaroos to play the winner of the three test series I mentioned above at Wembley or OT/Emirates/LSV (just kidding on that last one 😂)

I am certain that the same supporter fatigue that plagues international RL at the end of an NRL season is a large contributing factor to the lowest national audience in Wednesday’s fixture.

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I'd probably go to it if it was a one off, especially if it was in London as that's nearer for me. I wouldn't be interested in going every year though.

If they did bring it here I would also hope and expect it to be as a way of helping launch our own origin series. I would want that game played before or a day earlier to the SoO match, as part of an origin weekend.

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3 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I'd probably go to it if it was a one off, especially if it was in London as that's nearer for me. I wouldn't be interested in going every year though.

If they did bring it here I would also hope and expect it to be as a way of helping launch our own origin series. I would want that game played before or a day earlier to the SoO match, as part of an origin weekend.

I’d want England to be involved in a Tri-Series with Queensland and New South Wales.

England would probably stand a decent chance of winning which would whet the appetite for a series against the Kangeroos.

Probably attract decent crowds and media attention. 

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On 04/11/2020 at 18:13, MEXICO WILL PAY said:

But the UK does pretend England, Wales and Scotland are countries and they do get to have teams at the international level

Most major sport acknowledge that England, Northern Ireland, Scotland & Wales are separate identities, they have their own governments. If you watch the Commonwealth Games, you will notice Isle of Man, Jersey & Guernsey also have teams.

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On 05/11/2020 at 09:00, Harry Stottle said:

Do you not consider how the sanitising of the game has had some bearing on the 'physical' nature of the contest, and it was always said that the referring was much more lenient to any other Rugby League played in Australia. Kaufusi would never have recieved 10 mins under the 'allowed' intensity the game was played years ago.

 

 

On 05/11/2020 at 09:39, Dunbar said:

Yes, I believe that the way the game is refereed has had a massive impact on SOO.  State of Origin used to be different to a club game of Rugby - it was more intense, it was tougher and it was a higher quality... and in part that was because the players were given more leeway within the laws (the tougher part anyway).

I know why it has changed and I accept that it probably had to change but it is now just a 'normal' game of Rugby with that extra physical element removed.

I hadn't realized quite how big the downward trend in audience figures was until the post above which showed it was a million down in 2019 from its 2004 peak.

A number of words here like "physical", "intensity", "tougher", which I strongly suspect are euphemisms for violence. Or at least the quality of violence.

I was watching again some of SOO 1991 game 2. It appeared no more legally physical than this week`s game. The differences I noticed are the same as when comparing any game from 30 years ago with now. There was more depth in the attacking line, and generally a greater willingness to look for offloads (even in terrible conditions).

Most striking of all were the numerous occasions when the ball came loose or went to ground. Back then it was play-on and an opportunity for unstructured play. Now it would be a whistle and a call of knock-on, double knock-on, or ball-steal. And linked to this, stemming from the same obsessive compulsion to erase uncertainty, they didn`t have the bunker repeatedly confirming things which need no confirmation.

The decline of SOO TV audiences is part of a wider NRL FTA drop. Like everyone I can only subjectively guess whether this is related to the changes I`ve cited that put me off. But when earlier this year, Pete V decided the product needed improvement, I wish he`d looked at things like this, rather than opting for a more-of-the-same-but-faster approach with set restarts.

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14 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

A number of words here like "physical", "intensity", "tougher", which I strongly suspect are euphemisms for violence. Or at least the quality of violence.

I think the referees let things go in the past that maybe would have been pulled up in a club game.

But even taking that out of consideration, State of Origin was faster, more intense and had bigger hits that even the highest level club games in Australia. 

That isn't the case any more.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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16 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

 

A number of words here like "physical", "intensity", "tougher", which I strongly suspect are euphemisms for violence. Or at least the quality of violence.

I was watching again some of SOO 1991 game 2. It appeared no more legally physical than this week`s game. The differences I noticed are the same as when comparing any game from 30 years ago with now. There was more depth in the attacking line, and generally a greater willingness to look for offloads (even in terrible conditions).

Most striking of all were the numerous occasions when the ball came loose or went to ground. Back then it was play-on and an opportunity for unstructured play. Now it would be a whistle and a call of knock-on, double knock-on, or ball-steal. And linked to this, stemming from the same obsessive compulsion to erase uncertainty, they didn`t have the bunker repeatedly confirming things which need no confirmation.

The decline of SOO TV audiences is part of a wider NRL FTA drop. Like everyone I can only subjectively guess whether this is related to the changes I`ve cited that put me off. But when earlier this year, Pete V decided the product needed improvement, I wish he`d looked at things like this, rather than opting for a more-of-the-same-but-faster approach with set restarts.

Can't disagree with any of that U.P. rule changes especially the number of interchanges allowed has shackled the game in my opinion from being as expansive as it once was.

16 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I think the referees let things go in the past that maybe would have been pulled up in a club game.

But even taking that out of consideration, State of Origin was faster, more intense and had bigger hits that even the highest level club games in Australia. 

That isn't the case any more.

Which ever way you put it Dunbar my term of 'sanitising' is the precursor of the referees attitude to the way the game is adjudicated by the onfield officials, not just SOO and the southern hemisphere but up here also.

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