Mark and the Bulls

[Ainley Top]

23 hours ago, NickD said:

Cant laugh at this to be honest.....RL in turmoil, many clubs surely struggling financially....MS at the helm of both clubs...we may well end up up with a Dewsbully Bums..

That's not beyond the boundaries of reality.  Personally I think it's disgraceful to have one person/organisation in charge of two clubs, but hey-ho there you go.

[bentleyman]

Surely a conflict of interest ?

[Ainley Top]

1 hour ago, bentleyman said:

Surely a conflict of interest ?

It is and it's obvious. That's Rugby League these days for you.

[Rambo]

It’s a definite conflict of interest no doubt about it.

As a dews fan I’ve heard very little from Mark Sawyer with regards to his future plans for the dewsbury club but he’s making regular soundbites to the media about the bulls ambitions for returning to Odsal and SL.

It will be interesting see how the next few months play out. If the dulls hit SL will he continue to be big Nigel’s mouthpiece and take even more interest in the bulls? Possibly ditching the rams or will big Nigel step out from the shadows to take control of the dulls and Mark continues with Dews???

Any Rams fans out there with a few quid to throw at the club??

[Blind side johnny]

12 hours ago, Rambo said:

It’s a definite conflict of interest no doubt about it.

As a dews fan I’ve heard very little from Mark Sawyer with regards to his future plans for the dewsbury club but he’s making regular soundbites to the media about the bulls ambitions for returning to Odsal and SL.

It will be interesting see how the next few months play out. If the dulls hit SL will he continue to be big Nigel’s mouthpiece and take even more interest in the bulls? Possibly ditching the rams or will big Nigel step out from the shadows to take control of the dulls and Mark continues with Dews???

Any Rams fans out there with a few quid to throw at the club??

I would agree that's how it seems. However the Bulls still retain a PR team together with the T&A maintaining their strong interest: we have only one part-time man, recently on furlough, and the Dewsbury Reporter. I don't think that it is MS doing the publicity push rather the media/PR doing the promotion.

As we all well know Mark's preferred approach to communication, rightly or wrongly, is through forums and other meetings with fans. Any such vehicle is now completely impossible and likely to remain so for a long time yet.

Just to correct the assertions, as well. If it was a conflict of interest then it would not be permitted by the RFL. As I recall, and it was publicised at the time, MS obtained the approval of the RFL before he bought any shares in the Bradford club; in addition he was allowed to act as CEO, in extremis, due to the previously appointed CEO being marooned in Canada. It would probably be wise for Bradford to move on and appoint a new, independent CEO.

[Rambo]

What about the fact that the Bulls pay us rent to play at our ground. If Mark is angling for the Bulls to return to Odsal this then cuts off an income stream to our club.

If he is working purely with Dewbury’s best interests at heart would he want to cut off this income stream?

I can think of several other potential conflicts of interest in running 2 teams within the same competition from the same ground.

The fact that the RFL don’t see it as a conflict of interests doesn’t mean it isn’t.

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, Rambo said:

What about the fact that the Bulls pay us rent to play at our ground. If Mark is angling for the Bulls to return to Odsal this then cuts off an income stream to our club.

If he is working purely with Dewbury’s best interests at heart would he want to cut off this income stream?

I can think of several other potential conflicts of interest in running 2 teams within the same competition from the same ground.

The fact that the RFL don’t see it as a conflict of interests doesn’t mean it isn’t.

I believe that the approval by the RFL for Bradford to play at our ground was for 2020 only with a possible extension to 2021. Hence the income stream was short-term at best. Things have changed considerably since then I know.

It was also stated that the intention was for Bradford to return to their city as soon as possible. If they don't then they will lose support at a rapid rate.

 

[Rambo]

It would be interesting after all the effort to arrange the groundshare what we actually got off the bulls? If as reported it was a per match deal then with the season barely getting off the ground it would have been next to nothing. 

With the Toronto debacle and the bun fight to get into SL from within the ambitious champ clubs it will be interesting to see what happens.
 

[Wakefield Ram]

Without MS buying the Rams out of administration in 2002 we might not have a club. A financial basket case and a falling team. He has turned the Rams around into a solid Championship club, debts paid off, ground facilities improved. He has put many hours and a substantial amount of money into the club with no prospect of getting it back unless someone turns up offering a fortune. 

As for the Bulls, his offer was to help and not down to him he ended up holding the baby when others dropped off. 

As MS has said, the only way to make a small fortune from RL is to start with a large fortune.

I've supported the club 40 odd years and MS has been the best Chairman we have had IMO.

[NickD]

On 14/11/2020 at 13:08, Rambo said:

 

I can think of several other potential conflicts of interest in running 2 teams within the same competition from the same ground.

The fact that the RFL don’t see it as a conflict of interests doesn’t mean it isn’t.

Spot on Rambo.  if there's one sport that wouldn't know a conflict of interest even it bit them then its RL....

[Blind side johnny]

37 minutes ago, NickD said:

Spot on Rambo.  if there's one sport that would know a conflict of interest even it bit them then its RL....

Exactly, so it isn't.

[NickD]

1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

Exactly, so it isn't.

Good spot BSJ.  I'll amend now..

[silcoates]

20 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Without MS buying the Rams out of administration in 2002 we might not have a club. A financial basket case and a falling team. He has turned the Rams around into a solid Championship club, debts paid off, ground facilities improved. He has put many hours and a substantial amount of money into the club with no prospect of getting it back unless someone turns up offering a fortune. 

As for the Bulls, his offer was to help and not down to him he ended up holding the baby when others dropped off. 

As MS has said, the only way to make a small fortune from RL is to start with a large fortune.

I've supported the club 40 odd years and MS has been the best Chairman we have had IMO.

Of course that is all very true.But i remember  a so called bucket collection which raised something like 40/50 thousand,which we all contributed to.I said on here that he might well move with the bulls if he got them back to odsal .Which would be perfectly understandable.But i don't think they should be put straight into SL jumping over a team like featherstone who have done things the right way.The Bulls must have lost something like ten thousand genuine RL fans with their mis management.Let us see what happens.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

15 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Exactly, so it isn't.

It was supposed to be an emergency, stop gap measure to replace another stop gap measure. It's now gone on for 8 months. Are Bradford incapable of recruiting a CEO over that time?

[Blind side johnny]

7 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

It was supposed to be an emergency, stop gap measure to replace another stop gap measure. It's now gone on for 8 months. Are Bradford incapable of recruiting a CEO over that time?

Nigel Woods steps down from his role with the RLIF next month I believe.

[Blind side johnny]

9 hours ago, silcoates said:

Of course that is all very true.But i remember  a so called bucket collection which raised something like 40/50 thousand,which we all contributed to.I said on here that he might well move with the bulls if he got them back to odsal .Which would be perfectly understandable.But i don't think they should be put straight into SL jumping over a team like featherstone who have done things the right way.The Bulls must have lost something like ten thousand genuine RL fans with their mis management.Let us see what happens.

I don't recall any such bucket collection at Dewsbury. I doubt that we could have ever raised that kind of amount if we had ever held one.

I do recall when we bought pieces of the pitch at Crown Flatt when Sid Cross was President but that didn't raise so much, either.

[silcoates]

14 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

I don't recall any such bucket collection at Dewsbury. I doubt that we could have ever raised that kind of amount if we had ever held one.

I do recall when we bought pieces of the pitch at Crown Flatt when Sid Cross was President but that didn't raise so much, either.

I still have the yellow pitch certificate as well. I did say "so called "-bucket collection meaning donations.Come on somebody tell me that is what happened.

[Ainley Top]

On 14/11/2020 at 10:39, Blind side johnny said:

I would agree that's how it seems. However the Bulls still retain a PR team together with the T&A maintaining their strong interest: we have only one part-time man, recently on furlough, and the Dewsbury Reporter. I don't think that it is MS doing the publicity push rather the media/PR doing the promotion.

As we all well know Mark's preferred approach to communication, rightly or wrongly, is through forums and other meetings with fans. Any such vehicle is now completely impossible and likely to remain so for a long time yet.

Just to correct the assertions, as well. If it was a conflict of interest then it would not be permitted by the RFL. As I recall, and it was publicised at the time, MS obtained the approval of the RFL before he bought any shares in the Bradford club; in addition he was allowed to act as CEO, in extremis, due to the previously appointed CEO being marooned in Canada. It would probably be wise for Bradford to move on and appoint a new, independent CEO.

Bsj...I generally agree with your mostly well informed posts, but if you can't see the blatant conflict of interest here summats well amiss. Also if you believe owt the RFL says these days you must have a lot more faith in them than me.

[Wakefield Ram]

I'm pretty sure Mark doesn't want to be running two clubs. But he's not the sort to just ditch the Bulls and let them fail.

[9' oller]

As a batley fan id of welcomed Bradford to the mount if it meant extra guaranteed revenue for our clubs benefit.

I'm sure kev made an offer but one perhaps greedy.

If kev secured Bradford at the mount but then also went on to balance his dedication to both entities I'd be aggrieved but mostly worried.

Delusions of entitlement/ grandeur still run through bulls blood I'm just sorry kear has jumped in as his integrity is a rarity.

[Blind side johnny]

4 hours ago, Ainley Top said:

Bsj...I generally agree with your mostly well informed posts, but if you can't see the blatant conflict of interest here summats well amiss. Also if you believe owt the RFL says these days you must have a lot more faith in them than me.

I am talking about a conflict of interest as defined by the RFL, nothing more. Yes, in fact, I do have a lot of faith in the RFL as do the majority of Chairmen of Championship clubs (no, I am certainly not one of those) as they have stated repeatedly during the Covid crisis.

Perceived conflict of interest is entirely another thing and I can see how this appears to be so. The implication of such a phrase as used on this thread, however, is that MS is doing this for personal gain and using Dewsbury as a pawn in that strategy. If somebody wishes to say that is what they believe then let them do so.

[Ainley Top]

Any Dewsbury fan who doubts MS's intentions regarding the bulls should have a read of the article about 'favouritism towards the bulls' on the Bradford page.

[Blind side johnny]

25 minutes ago, Ainley Top said:

Any Dewsbury fan who doubts MS's intentions regarding the bulls should have a read of the article about 'favouritism towards the bulls' on the Bradford page.

We are discussing MS's intentions regarding Dewsbury though. Personally I have no emotional interest in what happens at Bradford. I have read elsewhere about so-called favouritism towards Toulouse but I guess that it sells chip-wrappers.

[Ainley Top]

1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

We are discussing MS's intentions regarding Dewsbury though. Personally I have no emotional interest in what happens at Bradford. I have read elsewhere about so-called favouritism towards Toulouse but I guess that it sells chip-wrappers.

Aye but the point being, from a Rams supporters angle, what happens if MS decides that Odslum is the place he really wants to be? That wouldn't help your club, indeed Dewsbury could have inadvertently assisted Bradford to the detriment of themselves.

[Piggy's mate]

1 hour ago, Ainley Top said:

Aye but the point being, from a Rams supporters angle, what happens if MS decides that Odslum is the place he really wants to be? That wouldn't help your club, indeed Dewsbury could have inadvertently assisted Bradford to the detriment of themselves.

We can but hope