Promotion Criteria Publicised

[Tommygilf]

Thought it was worthy of its own thread, links to a pdf.

[Tommygilf]

The criteria cover the following categories:

a. Market Size and Commercial Potential

b. Future Performance and Growth Plans

c. Playing Performance

d. Facilities and ability to host live TV Broadcast and key partners

e. Finance and Sustainability

f. Ownership, Management and Governance

[del capo]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

The criteria cover the following categories:

a. Market Size and Commercial Potential

b. Future Performance and Growth Plans

c. Playing Performance

d. Facilities and ability to host live TV Broadcast and key partners

e. Finance and Sustainability

f. Ownership, Management and Governance

Lucky the existing SL members aren't being measured .

[Tommygilf]

Just now, del capo said:

Lucky the existing SL members aren't being measured .

Agreed!

[Oxford]

Framing the Present?

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, del capo said:

Lucky the existing SL members aren't being measured .

Why's that - they would do pretty well under the majority of the criteria set?

[Dave T]

The 2k average attendance as an initial critieria measurement- does that rule out the likes of London and Toulouse?

[Hela Wigmen]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The 2k average attendance as an initial critieria measurement- does that rule out the likes of London and Toulouse?

Is it 2,000 over 2018 and 2019 or must have 2k minimum in 2018 and 2019? If it’s an average over the two years, London may scrape in. 

[Moove]

Interesting that they've managed to convene a key decision making panel which doesn't include club representatives. Strange that they couldn't do that for another similar key decision recently...

Good to see it's been published though rather than having to be leaked by an unsuccessful and disgruntled club after the event. Hopefully the start of people realising that transparency isn't a bad thing.

[Dave T]

Just now, Hela Wigmen said:

Is it 2,000 over 2018 and 2019 or must have 2k minimum in 2018 and 2019?

"Club has an average attendance of at least 2,000 in the 2018 or 2019 Regular Season..." - so it looks like they would need to hit the 2k average in one of those. Not sure London did that, don't know about Toulouse.

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

"Club has an average attendance of at least 2,000 in the 2018 or 2019 Regular Season..." - so it looks like they would need to hit the 2k average in one of those. Not sure London did that, don't know about Toulouse.

Surely they did in Super League?

EDIT - They did. 2,021 according to Wiki. 

[TrueBull]

Lol. Initial criteria to actually get your application looked at - stadium capacity 5k+

Bradford currently at Tetleys stadium, Dewsbury with capacity of 5100...

Although supposedly plans are afoot for Odsal return by about April.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Surely they did in Super League?

According to rugbyleagueproject.org they averaged 2,014 - maybe that is why it is set at 2k.

[Oxford]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The 2k average attendance as an initial critieria measurement- does that rule out the likes of London and Toulouse?

And that may be the idea, of course.

[Moove]

5 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Is it 2,000 over 2018 and 2019 or must have 2k minimum in 2018 and 2019? If it’s an average over the two years, London may scrape in. 

It says "Club has an average attendance of at least 2,000 in the 2018 or 2019 Regular Seasons" so London are fine on that from 2019 (just)

[TrueBull]

Big section on digital/social media footprint & ourleague membership numbers.

SL is wanting a good look at current financials, merchandising sales both in the past and forecasts. Want CV's of headcoach, head physio, player welfare manager.

Want full details of training facility. I understand, commensurate with a full time training programme.

Have the part time teams thought about this? Older SL players may have dropped to Bradford/York to become part time, work on their other businesses. They may not want to go back to Full time.

[barnyia]

Just read toulouse average in 2019 was 2448

 

[Tommygilf]

"Market size and commercial potential" is a tad misleading. There seems to be no criteria or method of assessment of "commercial potential", only current "market size".

For reference at their social media measures (apart from instagram because you can't see "impressions" as an outsider) the ranks are currently thus for Twitter and Facebook combined and rounded.

Widnes 80k (40k exactly on both sites)

Bradford 62k

London 37k

Leigh 34k

Fev 30k

Halifax 28k

York 21k

Toulouse 19k

What's clear is none of those numbers are brilliant and that Widnes and Bradford are quite a way in front. Every club bar Toulouse and Widnes did better on Twitter than on Facebook (perhaps reflecting French twitter usage for the former). Another stat is that Halifax Town have more twitter followers than Fax RL have both Twitter and Facebook combined, which gives an indication of the levels we're dealing with here.

There was an article that published the OuRLeague memberships for Championship clubs recently?

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

"Market size and commercial potential" is a tad misleading. There seems to be no criteria or method of assessment of "commercial potential", only current "market size".

For reference at their social media measures (apart from instagram because you can't see "impressions" as an outsider) the ranks are currently thus for Twitter and Facebook combined and rounded.

Widnes 80k (40k exactly on both sites)

Bradford 62k

London 37k

Leigh 34k

Fev 30k

Halifax 28k

York 21k

Toulouse 19k

What's clear is none of those numbers are brilliant and that Widnes and Bradford are quite a way in front. Every club bar Toulouse and Widnes did better on Twitter than on Facebook (perhaps reflecting French twitter usage for the former). Another stat is that Halifax Town have more twitter followers than Fax RL have both Twitter and Facebook combined, which gives an indication of the levels we're dealing with here.

There was an article that published the OuRLeague memberships for Championship clubs recently?

The guidance is quite detailed on this to be fair - it looks at web traffic, database size, social media traffic and followers, OurLeague members etc. - and whilst some of those numbers may be small, in general they are comparing versus other clubs in similar positions to them. 

In general these are established clubs in relatively similar positions, so probably fair to use as a comparison. 

There is a fair point about potential, but it would appear that they seem to want more evidence instead of fantasy stuff - if we worked on potential, London would blow the others out of the water, but the actual numbers don't necessarily support that. 

[Man of Kent]

London doesn't have an operational capacity of 5,000+, so that would appear to rule them out. 

[del capo]

Widnes seem to be out as they have not finished in the top 6 in the last 2 years.

What is Fev's market capacity with only 13000 living there ?

Just read the full application release.  Looks like the real RL /SL bigwigs ( Karen apart ) are steering well clear of this decision making process. Wonder why ?

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The guidance is quite detailed on this to be fair - it looks at web traffic, database size, social media traffic and followers, OurLeague members etc. - and whilst some of those numbers may be small, in general they are comparing versus other clubs in similar positions to them. 

In general these are established clubs in relatively similar positions, so probably fair to use as a comparison. 

There is a fair point about potential, but it would appear that they seem to want more evidence instead of fantasy stuff - if we worked on potential, London would blow the others out of the water, but the actual numbers don't necessarily support that. 

I suppose the numbers are so small that a small difference can be relatively massive. It's a good measuring stick but like any has its limitations. 

The OurLeague numbers from a month ago are here:

• 1. Bradford Bulls – 10,385
• 2. Leigh Centurions – 7,268
• 3. Widnes Vikings – 6,916
• 4. Featherstone Rovers – 5,249
• 5. York City Knights – 4,832
• 6. Halifax – 3,790
• 7. Barrow Raiders – 3,233
• 8. London Broncos – 2,907
• 9. Batley – 2,795
• 10. Doncaster – 2,702
• 11. Dewsbury – 2,505
• 12. Oldham – 2,441
• 13. Whitehaven – 2,434
• 14. Workington Town – 2,246
• 15. Toulouse Olympique – 2,188
• 16. Newcastle Thunder – 2,054
• 17. Hunslet – 1,690
• 18. Swinton Lions – 1,647
• 19. Sheffield Eagles – 1,517
• 20. Keighley – 1,446
• 21. Coventry Bears – 1,200
• 22. Rochdale Hornets – 1,005
• 23. North Wales Crusaders – 885
• 24. London Skolars – 717
• 25. West Wales Raiders – 710

In terms of Super League's own criteria for "a. Market Size...", there's no question Bradford are immensely strong in this area. That makes me wonder how this will be assessed. Will each club be ranked in each area and a winner drawn from that? Are some criterions worth more than others?

[gingerjon]

7 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

London doesn't have an operational capacity of 5,000+, so that would appear to rule them out. 

I can't see a date on this page: http://ealingtrailfinders.com/news/in-the-press-this-is-a-massive-call-that-will

But it suggests that Ealing RU are doing work / were doing work to increase the capacity to over 5,000.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

I can't see a date on this page: http://ealingtrailfinders.com/news/in-the-press-this-is-a-massive-call-that-will

But it suggests that Ealing RU are doing work / were doing work to increase the capacity to over 5,000.

And with Covid and RLs history with drawings taken as fact that may be enough to tick that box.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I suppose the numbers are so small that a small difference can be relatively massive. It's a good measuring stick but like any has its limitations. 

The OurLeague numbers from a month ago are here:

In terms of Super League's own criteria for "a. Market Size...", there's no question Bradford are immensely strong in this area. That makes me wonder how this will be assessed. Will each club be ranked in each area and a winner drawn from that? Are some criterions worth more than others?

As well as market size you also have attendances, and some of the community engagement stuff will pick up some other measures there. 

I'd be surprised if they are interested in the numbers to the nth degree, I expect they will be used as indicators as to whether certain clubs can demonstrate potential and which of those are over-indexing in certain areas etc. It's probably the best we can do right now.