Dave T Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Pete Smith in the YEP podcast very wary of the low expectations - particularly acknowledging the weaknesses of SL clubs. Also raises the valid point that there seems to be no strategy or vision. Comparing Toulouse and Leigh and Bradford for example is a bit odd. Those 3 offer totally separate visions and the criteria, only through its low bar, enables all to enter. People need to stop considering this as any kind of strategic licensing. We have a spare slot and need a decision making process to pick a 12th team. Any of these teams mentioned could have been promoted in a normal year had they actually been able to play games. This should be acknowledged as what it is, a fudge to deal with unprecedented times. But we still have P&R as far as we know, so the point about comparing Toulouse with Leigh is not really a big issue. Although under any system they would and should be compared, whether on the field or off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Just now, Gerrumonside ref said: In an ideal world it may also give Super League the chance to talk to prospective entrants about what they need to be successful in the top flight. It should really be an exercise also in discussing a Super League pathway for clubs in various states of readiness as well deciding on the 12th club this time. The opportunity is there, but as I say that’s in an ideal world. I think there are big decisions needed over the next few years in terms of structure and direction and much of this will tie into tv deals and any PE investment. But this fix isn't addressing that just yet, and tbh we are just in survival mode for the next 12m. I think the next 3 yrs are key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Pete Smith in the YEP podcast very wary of the low expectations - particularly acknowledging the weaknesses of SL clubs. Also raises the valid point that there seems to be no strategy or vision. Comparing Toulouse and Leigh and Bradford for example is a bit odd. Those 3 offer totally separate visions and the criteria, only through its low bar, enables all to enter. So I agree with this, however the likes of Leigh or Fev could argue that they bring as much/meet the criteria as much as some of the weaker SL sides, bar an academy. Therefore, to exclude them would be protectionist. However, there is a clear lack of strategy/vision........... What irked me, was Elstone's interview last night where he was talking about what value the 12th club would bring to SL. I have no issue with this, if the same exercise is carried out on existing SL clubs. We're halfway there to licensing again, but the existing members rule the roost. It's bonkers...........massive conflict of interest and there's no incentive for existing members to improve their weaknesses (such as stadium) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 16 hours ago, Tommygilf said: Yeah I agree, but will also be unsurprised when fans of x team complain as a result! Looking at the prior comments to this thread, the complaining fans may well be those of the team that gets the invitation, most are expressing that they would prefer to be in the Championship next term competing for promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrumonside ref Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Dave T said: I think there are big decisions needed over the next few years in terms of structure and direction and much of this will tie into tv deals and any PE investment. But this fix isn't addressing that just yet, and tbh we are just in survival mode for the next 12m. I think the next 3 yrs are key. I agree about survival mode especially for some of the Super League clubs. I think we could see a short term decision that might surprise and upset a few. I was just talking really about how in an ideal world (which this isn’t) you could use this opportunity to help guide all the potential applicants so that everyone involved can take something away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, DoubleD said: So I agree with this, however the likes of Leigh or Fev could argue that they bring as much/meet the criteria as much as some of the weaker SL sides, bar an academy. Therefore, to exclude them would be protectionist. However, there is a clear lack of strategy/vision........... What irked me, was Elstone's interview last night where he was talking about what value the 12th club would bring to SL. I have no issue with this, if the same exercise is carried out on existing SL clubs. We're halfway there to licensing again, but the existing members rule the roost. It's bonkers...........massive conflict of interest and there's no incentive for existing members to improve their weaknesses (such as stadium) This is a decision to decide the best club to fill the vacant 12th slot - why would Warrington and Saints need to be evaluated as part of that process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said: I agree about survival mode especially for some of the Super League clubs. I think we could see a short term decision that might surprise and upset a few. I was just talking really about how in an ideal world (which this isn’t) you could use this opportunity to help guide all the potential applicants so that everyone involved can take something away. Aye, I think there are many arguments for licensing, and I think that discussion will be prominent again in the coming years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, Dave T said: People need to stop considering this as any kind of strategic licensing. We have a spare slot and need a decision making process to pick a 12th team. Any of these teams mentioned could have been promoted in a normal year had they actually been able to play games. This should be acknowledged as what it is, a fudge to deal with unprecedented times. But we still have P&R as far as we know, so the point about comparing Toulouse with Leigh is not really a big issue. Although under any system they would and should be compared, whether on the field or off. Big IF hanging over P&R though Dave post '21. If the 12th club is like a lamb to slaughter ot a team to be brought up and kept up. They do also talk of strategy and vision in the criteria, just not what that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 15 hours ago, RayCee said: Of course there have to be minimum standards set. I assume the degree of flexibility the panel has will be exercised when they look at potential and the overall benefit for the game. Toulouse for example may have crowds that swell considerably once in SL. It would allow a local derby scenario with the Dragons. It would lift the profile of the game in the French media (hopefully). It may attract TV interest in France. If that scrutiny was applied to each candidate (and surely it will), then the minimum requirements highlights the qualifiers and the real work of who would offer the game the most commences. May have crowds that swell considerably once in SL. It may attract TV interest in France. The minimum requirements highlights the qualifiers and the real work? All supposition:- A belief held without proof or certain knowledge; an assumption or hypothesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Big IF hanging over P&R though Dave post '21. If the 12th club is like a lamb to slaughter ot a team to be brought up and kept up. They do also talk of strategy and vision in the criteria, just not what that is. Yep, I do have issues with this short-term decision, but that is what it is. I was never a fan of an 11 team comp, but it will be very difficult for whoever is selected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Looking at the prior comments to this thread, the complaining fans may well be those of the team that gets the invitation, most are expressing that they would prefer to be in the Championship next term competing for promotion. Indeed, which suggests to me something greater may be afoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 14 hours ago, lucky 7 said: No mention of having to have an academy. Having an academy in my opinion is a must for every club Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 14 hours ago, Magic XIII said: Again, jumping to conclusions. You are aware of the 30 November date when contracts end. Has it not crossed your mind that they cant announce players signed ? Good point, I am eagerly awaiting the other signings additional to ones already announced at Leigh when players contracts are terminated, and I say this for a season in the Championship not SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic XIII Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said: I am eagerly awaiting the other signings As am I <fingers crossed mode> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 33 minutes ago, Dave T said: This is a decision to decide the best club to fill the vacant 12th slot - why would Warrington and Saints need to be evaluated as part of that process? Because they are not going with the next best placed side but instead they are introducing licensing criteria, with heavy emphasis on 'adding commercial value to SL' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binosh Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 I think deep down we all know that Bradford will be given the nod with the Wood connection. RFL will invest in the renovations to Odsal to make sure their tenant can play there and thus start to recoup some lost earnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 17 minutes ago, DoubleD said: Because they are not going with the next best placed side but instead they are introducing licensing criteria, with heavy emphasis on 'adding commercial value to SL' But there is no next best side really, because the teams haven't played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 58 minutes ago, DoubleD said: So I agree with this, however the likes of Leigh or Fev could argue that they bring as much/meet the criteria as much as some of the weaker SL sides, bar an academy. Therefore, to exclude them would be protectionist. However, there is a clear lack of strategy/vision........... What irked me, was Elstone's interview last night where he was talking about what value the 12th club would bring to SL. I have no issue with this, if the same exercise is carried out on existing SL clubs. We're halfway there to licensing again, but the existing members rule the roost. It's bonkers...........massive conflict of interest and there's no incentive for existing members to improve their weaknesses (such as stadium) I totally agree mate, though I wouldn't put it past Elstone and the current crop of SL chairmen to vote to expunge one from their number. I'm not saying Leigh or Fev don't bring anything either, just that comparing to Bradford or Toulouse is a bit apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleD Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Dave T said: But there is no next best side really, because the teams haven't played. They could always use most recent on field performance. They seemingly have little interest in this, they are looking for off field criteria such as adding commercial value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Drake Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Various posts removed. Stick to the point of the thread and avoid making it personal. If other people have opinions you can't bear to read, put them on ignore, becasue they are still entitled to express them on here without copping for personal abuse in response. And if you report a post for any reason, DO NOT also reply to it. You make matters worse when you do that. Leave it to the moderators to resolve the situation. Thank you. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 If a strategic decision was made to build up Bradford to be a Super League team again and get them playing back at Odsal I don't mind. RL and Super League needs big clubs and a strong Bradford. Similar arguments can also be made for Toulouse, a huge city with big corporate support and backers and a ready made SL standard ground. Also they provide huge benefits for the French game and international RL and the potential for additional revenue from French TV deals going forward. We are quickly getting to the stage where the game, and Super League, needs to make key decisions going forward to increase its appeal. By hook or by crook I think we need both these teams in Super League in 2022 in a 14 team Super League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Interesting that Nigel Wood has his fingers in the pie at Bradford. That shouldn't be ignored in the mix here given how subjective this decision may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blues Ox Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Bradford are not eligable if the criteria is adhered to. I think Fev are ok as it must be before 2017 they had any WUP or legal action against them. Leigh may be borderline but the criteria is a bit flakey in that respect. I neither thought Fax would be, or should be, considered for SL but the criteria did make me laugh that despite earning the right to play in the middle 8's we were not allowed to include those figures but by the same account London earned the right to play in SL and only just met minimum criteria. I think Tex had the right idea in saying that the application criteria should be set in stone and given to a totally independant panel for them to judge. Ive said before that I think only 3 teams should be considered and I would have no problem any of them winning the vote but then the criteria was put up I believed it had been made in a way, especially the highlighting of social media, that favoured Bradford but with them ruled out I really have no idea which way this will go now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 15 minutes ago, Scubby said: Interesting that Nigel Wood has his fingers in the pie at Bradford. That shouldn't be ignored in the mix here given how subjective this decision may be. Not to worry Nancy Pelosi's got the deciding vote and she's a Fevnut! Not many people know that! 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 20 minutes ago, Scubby said: Interesting that Nigel Wood has his fingers in the pie at Bradford. That shouldn't be ignored in the mix here given how subjective this decision may be. 3 RFL, 3 Super League, 1 Leeds Lord with the casting vote... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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