The Great Dane Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 11 hours ago, GUBRATS said: So you have no idea about the UK , but you're offering opinions on it ? , Are you Australian ? Actually I didn't give my opinion at all... I said "I have no idea which clubs in England the NRL would deem the most important/valuable". 11 hours ago, GUBRATS said: Clueless How is that clueless? Everything I said there the NRL and clubs have done in Australia, and if they had the power to do so would try to do similar things in England. Maybe if the RFL and clubs had done some of those things themselves, particularly diversifying their income streams, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Dane Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 11 hours ago, GUBRATS said: Like who ? Newcastle, Gold Coast, Wests, others to a lesser extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Dane Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 5 hours ago, Copa said: The Canberra Raiders have 5 clubs. They have restaurants, bars, cafes, function rooms, huge TVs everywhere showing sports. Most are open 9am to 4am 7 days a week. They have 6. 4 in the ACT, 1 in NSW, and 1 in QLD. They also own/are involved in a bunch of other assets and businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrisbaneRhino Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Pokies are and have been a huge source of revenue for leagues clubs. What the bigger clubs have been able top do is to use the cash generated to invest in all kinds of things - real estate, other clubs etc. As a result some leagues clubs (like the Panthers) are hugely wealthy and have a lot of political clout. Even Somewhere like Redcliffe, the Dolphins leagues club basically owns most other sports clubs on the peninsula and some of the most valuable real estate. None of that it is at all replicable in England, whether in SL or elsewhere. Whilst some deny it and there has been a lot of effort in recent years to diversify away from it, the wealth of most leagues clubs was built on gambling revenue, not to mention the pub/club culture here hasn't seen anything like the contraction in England over the past twenty years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Dane Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 8 hours ago, Big Picture said: No they couldn't easily afford to do that. They'd no more be able to generate the extra income needed to double the central funding than the current management can, because the clubs are all in wrong sort of places to do so. To quote former St Helens CEO Sean McGuire they're in "smallish economically disadvantaged towns" and consequently they won't ever be able to attract the sort of TV audiences needed to doubkle the money which underwrites the central funding. Without a solution to that issue, there's simply no way to bring that extra money into the game in the northern hemisphere. A. You are assuming they'd keep all the current clubs that are in the Super League. B. Going by Damien's numbers, For a league of 10 clubs it'd cost the NRL roughly £46mil (au$83 mil) a year to double their grants. If they really wanted to they could come up with that money just from the NRL's broadcasting deals, they'd undoubtedly have to re-gig some things and other areas would get cutback, but they could do it easily. Again that's more or less what they did with the Knights, Titans, etc. They took them over, put their people in charge, flushed them with all the resources they needed to build a successful club, then banked on making their money back from the sale of the clubs and in the long run through broadcasting deals. Here's the thing though, they probably wouldn't even need to double their grants to flush the clubs with resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Dane Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, BrisbaneRhino said: Pokies are and have been a huge source of revenue for leagues clubs. What the bigger clubs have been able top do is to use the cash generated to invest in all kinds of things - real estate, other clubs etc. As a result some leagues clubs (like the Panthers) are hugely wealthy and have a lot of political clout. Even Somewhere like Redcliffe, the Dolphins leagues club basically owns most other sports clubs on the peninsula and some of the most valuable real estate. None of that it is at all replicable in England, whether in SL or elsewhere. Whilst some deny it and there has been a lot of effort in recent years to diversify away from it, the wealth of most leagues clubs was built on gambling revenue, not to mention the pub/club culture here hasn't seen anything like the contraction in England over the past twenty years. Real estate and COE's is where most of the clubs have/are moving now, and there's no reason why you couldn't replicate those in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, The Great Dane said: A. You are assuming they'd keep all the current clubs that are in the Super League. B. Going by Damien's numbers, For a league of 10 clubs it'd cost the NRL roughly £46mil (au$83 mil) a year to double their grants. If they really wanted to they could come up with that money just from the NRL's broadcasting deals, they'd undoubtedly have to re-gig some things and other areas would get cutback, but they could do it easily. Again that's more or less what they did with the Knights, Titans, etc. They took them over, put their people in charge, flushed them with all the resources they needed to build a successful club, then banked on making their money back from the sale of the clubs and in the long run through broadcasting deals. Here's the thing though, they probably wouldn't even need to double their grants to flush the clubs with resources. Where would they find better clubs within the game to replace the current clubs though? They can't make back the sort of money you're talking about without much better broadcasting deals to increase the clubs' value for resale, and they can't do any of that without breaking out of M62 land and its smallish economically disadvantaged towns. So where would they find clubs able to give them that??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrisbaneRhino Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Really? Then why didn't I think of that. Utter cobblers. Have you looked at the value of 'real estate' in England recently - more specifically in areas where RL clubs actually play? If this was as 'easy' as you suggest it wouldn't be the NRL doing it, anybody with cash (including people that make the NRL look like utter paupers) would already be doing it. The reality is most British RL teams operate in areas which don't have a lot of money and where land isn't worth that much. You can't create wealth out of nothing. But if you can convince some rich Aussies to invest on the basis that what works in Sydney will work in the north of England, good luck with that. By the way, if you're looking at an example of terrible expansion, look no further than the Titans. The Gold Coast was and always will be a sporting graveyard, and the reasons are obvious to anyone who has ever lived there. The NRL and AFL are wasting millions for very little return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrisbaneRhino Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Sorry BP - I was responding to the Great Dane. Who apparently has Scooby's processing power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Dane Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Just now, Big Picture said: Where would they find better clubs within the game to replace the current clubs though? They can't make back the sort of money you're talking about without much better broadcasting deals to increase the clubs' value for resale, and they can't do any of that without breaking out of M62 land and its smallish economically disadvantaged towns. So where would they find clubs able to give them that??? A well run club in London that isn't run on the smell of an oily rag would be a good place to start, and there's no reason why the Broncos or Scholars couldn't be that club with the right people and money behind them, both of which the NRL could do a lot to help with. You could do similar things with other clubs from some of the bigger markets in the north that aren't well represented in the SL, Newcastle and Sheffield maybe. I don't know much about France or what impact a strong Toulouse would have on broadcasting contracts, but maybe them as well. Maybe talk about the potential of moving clubs into Liverpool and Manchester, maybe not if that's not well received by the clubs and fans, but explore all your options. Obviously I'm just spitballing, and others would have a better idea than me, but the point is that English RL has the makings of a competition that is much more appealing to broadcasters, and could be the basis form which the sport grows more nationally, they just haven't had the resources to make it a reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Dane Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 22 minutes ago, BrisbaneRhino said: Really? Then why didn't I think of that. Utter cobblers. Have you looked at the value of 'real estate' in England recently - more specifically in areas where RL clubs actually play? If this was as 'easy' as you suggest it wouldn't be the NRL doing it, anybody with cash (including people that make the NRL look like utter paupers) would already be doing it. The reality is most British RL teams operate in areas which don't have a lot of money and where land isn't worth that much. You can't create wealth out of nothing. But if you can convince some rich Aussies to invest on the basis that what works in Sydney will work in the north of England, good luck with that. By the way, if you're looking at an example of terrible expansion, look no further than the Titans. The Gold Coast was and always will be a sporting graveyard, and the reasons are obvious to anyone who has ever lived there. The NRL and AFL are wasting millions for very little return. You know you don't actually have to invest in real estate in the town you live in right, and I never said it would be easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copa Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 1 hour ago, The Great Dane said: They have 6. 4 in the ACT, 1 in NSW, and 1 in QLD. They also own/are involved in a bunch of other assets and businesses. I didn’t know about the one in QLD. What’s its name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 2 hours ago, The Great Dane said: A well run club in London that isn't run on the smell of an oily rag would be a good place to start, and there's no reason why the Broncos or Scholars couldn't be that club with the right people and money behind them, both of which the NRL could do a lot to help with. You could do similar things with other clubs from some of the bigger markets in the north that aren't well represented in the SL, Newcastle and Sheffield maybe. I don't know much about France or what impact a strong Toulouse would have on broadcasting contracts, but maybe them as well. Maybe talk about the potential of moving clubs into Liverpool and Manchester, maybe not if that's not well received by the clubs and fans, but explore all your options. Obviously I'm just spitballing, and others would have a better idea than me, but the point is that English RL has the makings of a competition that is much more appealing to broadcasters, and could be the basis form which the sport grows more nationally, they just haven't had the resources to make it a reality. You don't seriously think that moving existing small time clubs into Liverpool and Manchester would change anything do you? Apart from the fact that their current supporters would have a fit as happened when Swinton talked about rebranding but staying where they were, Liverpudlians and Mancunians wouldn't be fooled for a minute. If you seriously want to win over Liverpudlians, Mancunians, Londoners, etc. a whole new approach would be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 Is it time to take a vote on this then? If so is it possible to add a choice in at this late date? 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 5 hours ago, The Great Dane said: A well run club in London that isn't run on the smell of an oily rag would be a good place to start, and there's no reason why the Broncos or Scholars couldn't be that club with the right people and money behind them, both of which the NRL could do a lot to help with. You could do similar things with other clubs from some of the bigger markets in the north that aren't well represented in the SL, Newcastle and Sheffield maybe. Like when the Brisbane Broncos got involved with London,that went well. !! Like when Shane Richardson helped set up Gateshead Thunder,that went well. !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Davo5 said: Like when the Brisbane Broncos got involved with London,that went well. !! Like when Shane Richardson helped set up Gateshead Thunder,that went well. !! Yes you're right except one was following the RFL/SL model of trying it out for two seconds and then runnung away and the other modelled that model. Neither truly had the hallmark of the NRL or how they've proceeded in Oz. I doubt that the examples you use would bear any resenblance to what would happen if the NRL was fully involved. I also think that the RFL/SL would need to get contractual assurances as to what could and couldn't happen and that it must be a long haul arrangement & agreement. Then when the RFL/SL tried to give up after 6 minutes they couldn't just up sticks and leave town. 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copa Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 I doubt it will happen but if it does, V’landys’ unrelenting drive, bulldozer tactics, cunning, intelligence and take no prisoners approach combined with his very affable (genuinely) working class demeanour would be a very interesting introduction to the SL world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 34 minutes ago, Copa said: I doubt it will happen but if it does, V’landys’ unrelenting drive, bulldozer tactics, cunning, intelligence and take no prisoners approach combined with his very affable (genuinely) working class demeanour would be a very interesting introduction to the SL world. He does have an unerring sense of what to change and the ability to ignore the naysayers which would be very welcome and has always been the missing elements of development here. 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 15 hours ago, Big Picture said: You don't seriously think that moving existing small time clubs into Liverpool and Manchester would change anything do you? Apart from the fact that their current supporters would have a fit as happened when Swinton talked about rebranding but staying where they were, Liverpudlians and Mancunians wouldn't be fooled for a minute. If you seriously want to win over Liverpudlians, Mancunians, Londoners, etc. a whole new approach would be needed. They wouldn't have a fit , they'd just not attend , they'd wait till a Phoenix club arrose for them to follow So the new clubs would be playing under covid 19 rules for a long, long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.