Elstone talks TV deal, Private Equity and next season (ish)

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

A win is a win

 

P 

Yes , but if the rest hadnt been so rubbish Saints wouldn't have been afforded the luxury of being able to chuck 2 games 

Just one of those seasons 

[The Future is League]

55 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

They shouldn't be really, but I'm coming to a point of very high certainty that Elstone wants them in and for different reasons the RFL do too. I think objectively Bradford the club isn't ready, but equally objectively, Bradford the city is somewhere that should be in Super League for it to be strong (in Elstone's view too).

I really can't see how they can get the nod to come back in to Super League

They have in recent years been a financial basket case and they wont be playing out of Bradford unless someone spends millions doing up Odsal.

It seems very odd to me they they would play out of Dewsbury, but still be the Bradford Bulls and how would them playing out of Dewsbury benefit Rugby League in Bradford, it wouldn't in my opinion.

[paul hicks]

6 hours ago, Oxford said:

They don't, all the talk has been of bums on seats, did you miss that bit ?

no good to me then as I stand 

[paul hicks]

3 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

You mean like TWP were being "destroyed each week" untill....

The bottom team is going to be uncompetitive.  London amazingly won 2 games against Saints which were an aberration.  The only way to stabilise the league is to scrap relegation.

As for PE, well based on the comments we will never get it because Hetherington will black ball it... especially if Elstone proposes it.

in Gary we trust .

as for London they had a lot more time to prepare and a bit more money I would guess unless Toulouse get the nod in which case they local politicians could  well help with  funds been made available 

[paul hicks]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

They shouldn't be really, but I'm coming to a point of very high certainty that Elstone wants them in and for different reasons the RFL do too. I think objectively Bradford the club isn't ready, but equally objectively, Bradford the city is somewhere that should be in Super League for it to be strong (in Elstone's view too).

would Bradford really qualify  as even they don't know were they will be playing next season  and i while enjoying going to Dewsbury to see games don't think its up to super league standards mind you there are clubs already in super league with worse grounds 

[Tommygilf]

26 minutes ago, paul hicks said:

would Bradford really qualify  as even they don't know were they will be playing next season  and i while enjoying going to Dewsbury to see games don't think its up to super league standards mind you there are clubs already in super league with worse grounds 

I think we're beyond that now tbh. If they want them in they'll make it so.

[Oxford]

3 hours ago, paul hicks said:

no good to me then as I stand 

Well TGG is the Poor People's Game when all's said and done.

[Robin Evans]

14 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

If they want them in they'll make it so.

Which is why I wish they'd just do away with the charade and elevate the team they want. End the whole bloody pantomime

[Tommygilf]

30 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Which is why I wish they'd just do away with the charade and elevate the team they want. End the whole bloody pantomime

It will be interesting to see who comes out and why. Love a Super League report.

[whatmichaelsays]

15 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I think we're beyond that now tbh. If they want them in they'll make it so.

That's kind of my thinking as well. 

I think Elstone is right to suggest that a strong Bradford Bulls would be an asset to Super League. The issue is that there currently isn't a strong Bradford Bulls. 

Can Bradford Bulls become a strong club whilst outside of Super League? I'm not sure - and certainly not if we're talking a Bradford club out of the money pit that is Odsal. The cost base is too high, the club doesn't (to my knowledge) have enthusiastically benevolent owners to underwrite the losses and I think the thing that the Bulls built their success on in the early years of Super League was a profile that they simply wouldn't get in the lower leagues. 

I think the game is stuck between a rock and a hard place with Bradford. There is undoubted potential there for a vibrant, successful club that can be an asset to the elite competition, but it's a very long road for the club to get to that point and it would more than likely need some support (and some protection) for it to there.

The game would be well within it's rights to say "forget it, you got yourself into this mess so why should we help you more than anyone else?" - and in most respects they would be absolutely right - but there is equally an argument (and one that I know will split the room here) to say that supporting a Bradford Bulls club to reach the heights that it did in the early Super League days really is an opportunity cost that is at least worth considering. The numbers for having a vibrant Bulls in Super League stack up more than they do having a vibrant Fev, Widnes or cumbrian club.

This is where structures such as promotion and relegation really don't help. No club, whether it's a Bradford or anyone else, is going to fulfill their potential with the short-termist year-to-year approach when there is so much other work that needs to be done. I would say the same about a club like York - a club that has done so much right off the field, but could see so much of that work undone by a bad season in SL, and the game would be missing an opportunity as a result. 

As much as I know people want issues like promotion and relegation to be decided on the field and not in boardrooms, it's a structure that does come with downsides. If the game thinks it can afford those downsides, then great. But I'm not sure it can. This isn't the Premier League, where the Leeds United team coming up from the Championship is a stronger club than the Bournemouth that they're replacing. What we're doing is going around in circles introducing a club that is often no stronger than the one they replace, and addresses that by signing the players that took that previous club down. I mean, it was a great system for keeping the likes of Jules O'Neill in a career, but that was about it. 

 

[Robin Evans]

9 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

That's kind of my thinking as well. 

I think Elstone is right to suggest that a strong Bradford Bulls would be an asset to Super League. The issue is that there currently isn't a strong Bradford Bulls. 

Can Bradford Bulls become a strong club whilst outside of Super League? I'm not sure - and certainly not if we're talking a Bradford club out of the money pit that is Odsal. The cost base is too high, the club doesn't (to my knowledge) have enthusiastically benevolent owners to underwrite the losses and I think the thing that the Bulls built their success on in the early years of Super League was a profile that they simply wouldn't get in the lower leagues. 

I think the game is stuck between a rock and a hard place with Bradford. There is undoubted potential there for a vibrant, successful club that can be an asset to the elite competition, but it's a very long road for the club to get to that point and it would more than likely need some support (and some protection) for it to there.

The game would be well within it's rights to say "forget it, you got yourself into this mess so why should we help you more than anyone else?" - and in most respects they would be absolutely right - but there is equally an argument (and one that I know will split the room here) to say that supporting a Bradford Bulls club to reach the heights that it did in the early Super League days really is an opportunity cost that is at least worth considering. The numbers for having a vibrant Bulls in Super League stack up more than they do having a vibrant Fev, Widnes or cumbrian club.

This is where structures such as promotion and relegation really don't help. No club, whether it's a Bradford or anyone else, is going to fulfill their potential with the short-termist year-to-year approach when there is so much other work that needs to be done. As much as I know people want issues like promotion and relegation to be decided on the field and not in boardrooms, it's a structure that does come with downsides. If the game thinks it can afford those downsides, then great. But I'm not sure it can. This isn't the Premier League, where the Leeds United team coming up from the Championship is a stronger club than the Bournemouth that they're replacing. What we're doing is going around in circles introducing a club that is often no stronger than the one they replace, and addresses that by signing the players that took that previous club down. I mean, it was a great system for keeping the likes of Jules O'Neill in a career, but that was about it. 

 

Next season's bit part has had me chuckling from the day Toronto got the 'dear John'.

If we're saying no to Toronto cos of covid risks and restrictions, and no to Bradford cos their numbers can scare a nun, or fev cos .... well, 'its fev init'.... fax already discounted .... Paul chuckle submitted their letter of interest...

Then who???? York or leigh,?

It could destroy york and whilst fordy is never known to walk past a mirror, he's not ready yet either.

Realistically..... who?

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Next season's bit part has had me chuckling from the day Toronto got the 'dear John'.

If we're saying no to Toronto cos of covid risks and restrictions, and no to Bradford cos their numbers can scare a nun, or fev cos .... well, 'its fev init'.... fax already discounted .... Paul chuckle submitted their letter of interest...

Then who???? York or leigh,?

It could destroy york and whilst fordy is never known to walk past a mirror, he's not ready yet either.

Realistically..... who?

It begins with T and ends with oulouse!

[The Future is League]

12 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

That's kind of my thinking as well. 

I think Elstone is right to suggest that a strong Bradford Bulls would be an asset to Super League. The issue is that there currently isn't a strong Bradford Bulls. 

Can Bradford Bulls become a strong club whilst outside of Super League? I'm not sure - and certainly not if we're talking a Bradford club out of the money pit that is Odsal. The cost base is too high, the club doesn't (to my knowledge) have enthusiastically benevolent owners to underwrite the losses and I think the thing that the Bulls built their success on in the early years of Super League was a profile that they simply wouldn't get in the lower leagues. 

I think the game is stuck between a rock and a hard place with Bradford. There is undoubted potential there for a vibrant, successful club that can be an asset to the elite competition, but it's a very long road for the club to get to that point and it would more than likely need some support (and some protection) for it to there.

The game would be well within it's rights to say "forget it, you got yourself into this mess so why should we help you more than anyone else?" - and in most respects they would be absolutely right - but there is equally an argument (and one that I know will split the room here) to say that supporting a Bradford Bulls club to reach the heights that it did in the early Super League days really is an opportunity cost that is at least worth considering. The numbers for having a vibrant Bulls in Super League stack up more than they do having a vibrant Fev, Widnes or cumbrian club.

This is where structures such as promotion and relegation really don't help. No club, whether it's a Bradford or anyone else, is going to fulfill their potential with the short-termist year-to-year approach when there is so much other work that needs to be done. I would say the same about a club like York - a club that has done so much right off the field, but could see so much of that work undone by a bad season in SL, and the game would be missing an opportunity as a result. 

As much as I know people want issues like promotion and relegation to be decided on the field and not in boardrooms, it's a structure that does come with downsides. If the game thinks it can afford those downsides, then great. But I'm not sure it can. This isn't the Premier League, where the Leeds United team coming up from the Championship is a stronger club than the Bournemouth that they're replacing. What we're doing is going around in circles introducing a club that is often no stronger than the one they replace, and addresses that by signing the players that took that previous club down. I mean, it was a great system for keeping the likes of Jules O'Neill in a career, but that was about it. 

 

With their recent history if Financial mismanagement Bradford should be no where near being let back into Super League and not being even able to pay the lease on Odsal is another reason why they should be years away from playing in Super League again

[Robin Evans]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

It begins with T and ends with oulouse!

Aye.... id go them or leigh if im honest.

But.... there's a significant obstacle of covid management to get round which is why I (and others) have discounted them at this time..... which leaves.... ad infinitum .....

[whatmichaelsays]

1 minute ago, The Future is League said:

With their recent history if Financial mismanagement Bradford should be no where near being let back into Super League and not being even able to pay the lease on Odsal is another reason why they should be years away from playing in Super League again

I would tend to agree, but I would equally point out that the people previously behind that financial mismanagement have long since gone. Andrew Chalmers, Omar Khan and Chris Caisley were never Bradford Bulls and Bradford Bulls were never Andrew Chalmers, Omar Khan or Chris Caisley.

Depending on your definition of "recent", clubs like Wakefield have a "recent history of financial mismanagement", yet Michael Carter plays a key role in crunching the numbers for SLE. Salford have this season been deducted "points" for financial issues caused by the previous owner. 

I understand, and I say this as no Bulls fan, that there is a section of support that want to see the Bulls punished / pay the price / rot in purgatory for their previous misdeeds, but I don't think that's a productive way to deal with any club.

The club should be judged on the merits of its business plan and credentials today, as well as its prospects for the future - not on the actions of individuals who have long since run into the sunset. Even on the basis of that, I would say that the club isn't ready for Super League, but I do understand the argument for saying that a strong Bradford would be an asset to the league. 

[Tommygilf]

11 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

That's kind of my thinking as well. 

I think Elstone is right to suggest that a strong Bradford Bulls would be an asset to Super League. The issue is that there currently isn't a strong Bradford Bulls. 

Can Bradford Bulls become a strong club whilst outside of Super League? I'm not sure - and certainly not if we're talking a Bradford club out of the money pit that is Odsal. The cost base is too high, the club doesn't (to my knowledge) have enthusiastically benevolent owners to underwrite the losses and I think the thing that the Bulls built their success on in the early years of Super League was a profile that they simply wouldn't get in the lower leagues. 

I think the game is stuck between a rock and a hard place with Bradford. There is undoubted potential there for a vibrant, successful club that can be an asset to the elite competition, but it's a very long road for the club to get to that point and it would more than likely need some support (and some protection) for it to there.

The game would be well within it's rights to say "forget it, you got yourself into this mess so why should we help you more than anyone else?" - and in most respects they would be absolutely right - but there is equally an argument (and one that I know will split the room here) to say that supporting a Bradford Bulls club to reach the heights that it did in the early Super League days really is an opportunity cost that is at least worth considering. The numbers for having a vibrant Bulls in Super League stack up more than they do having a vibrant Fev, Widnes or cumbrian club.

This is where structures such as promotion and relegation really don't help. No club, whether it's a Bradford or anyone else, is going to fulfill their potential with the short-termist year-to-year approach when there is so much other work that needs to be done. I would say the same about a club like York - a club that has done so much right off the field, but could see so much of that work undone by a bad season in SL, and the game would be missing an opportunity as a result. 

As much as I know people want issues like promotion and relegation to be decided on the field and not in boardrooms, it's a structure that does come with downsides. If the game thinks it can afford those downsides, then great. But I'm not sure it can. This isn't the Premier League, where the Leeds United team coming up from the Championship is a stronger club than the Bournemouth that they're replacing. What we're doing is going around in circles introducing a club that is often no stronger than the one they replace, and addresses that by signing the players that took that previous club down. I mean, it was a great system for keeping the likes of Jules O'Neill in a career, but that was about it. 

 

Yeah thats my position really. Its clear Bradford is a prime city for a Super League club and Super League needs as many big strong clubs as possible in the population centres in the north it can have parity in. It is not clear whether they have a club or facilities to support that right now though. Perhaps that is why Elstone wants private equity money in the game, to invest in projects such as this.

And with such a small top flight, any promoted team is always going to be fighting a losing battle. I personally think you could get around that by expanding the top flight itself, but that comes with its own issues.

[Tommygilf]

8 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Aye.... id go them or leigh if im honest.

But.... there's a significant obstacle of covid management to get round which is why I (and others) have discounted them at this time..... which leaves.... ad infinitum .....

I think if Catalans are already in the league that complaint is moot tbh. 

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think if Catalans are already in the league that complaint is moot tbh. 

A point so obvious it can be seen from space.

And yet will, somehow, the argument will be used to exclude Toulouse anyway.

[Harry Stottle]

31 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

It will be interesting to see who comes out and why. Love a Super League report.

If the selection process is a charade, what makes you think the explanation of 'why' will be any different

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

If the selection process is a charade, what makes you think the explanation of 'why' will be any different

I don't, but will appreciate the comedy value

[Harry Stottle]

16 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Aye.... id go them or leigh if im honest.

But.... there's a significant obstacle of covid management to get round which is why I (and others) have discounted them at this time..... which leaves.... ad infinitum .....

You just want Leigh or Toulouse out of the way for the promotion push next season don't you Robin. 

I don't  want Leigh to be the choice of the 12th club, for much the same reasons as I expect you don't want it to be Fev, looking forward to crossing swords with you next season Robin.

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I don't, but will appreciate the comedy value

I would personally prefer it was explained in front of the camera's just to see if a straight face can be maintained or there is no growing of noses.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

I would personally prefer it was explained in front of the camera's just to see if a straight face can be maintained or there is no growing of noses.

You have seen Elstone's interview on sky post Toronto H?

[Robin Evans]

7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

You just want Leigh or Toulouse out of the way for the promotion push next season don't you Robin. 

I don't  want Leigh to be the choice of the 12th club, for much the same reasons as I expect you don't want it to be Fev, looking forward to crossing swords with you next season Robin.

Yes. Of course.....

But.... I think Leigh would probably make the best of it out of all the contenders....

But, as stated, they'll pick who they want.

[The Future is League]

For me the new TV deal will define his time in Rugby League and show if he is worth the money he and his staff are being paid or he's just hot air.