Elstone talks TV deal, Private Equity and next season (ish)

[Harry Stottle]

26 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I personally think you could get around that by expanding the top flight itself, but that comes with its own issues

As long as it's on the field of play and not around the table I am fine with the issues, does your expanded SL also include protecting teams from relegation by closing the door as in a closed shop on any other team being 'promoted? It will be a very bold step for the RFL/SL to take such a decision they would be aware of alienating at least 5 clubs and their fans, and yes even the guy's who put their hard earned into their clubs. 

SL have decided that there are 8 clubs in the Championship who are worthy of a consideration to fill the 12th spot by allowing them the opportunity to submit an application those clubs must be deemed to have 'potential' if a closed shop is ever under consideration and becomes the format then all that potential for tbose clubs will be wiped out, will the guy's who finance the club's carry on, will the fan's still turn up?

If Bradford, London or Toulouse are the choice of 12th position and as some suggest they should be given protection from relegation, I think we will be heading down the road of a closed shop again, a huge sigh of relief for some SL clubs but I think irreparable damage will be done to the sport. 

[Harry Stottle]

40 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

You have seen Elstone's interview on sky post Toronto H?

Only the one pre-game after the decision was made. 

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, Robin Evans said:

Which is why I wish they'd just do away with the charade and elevate the team they want. End the whole bloody pantomime

It does make you wonder why they need a month ? , I'm sure it could be done in a day if they really tried , this isn't the Good Friday agreement , or the middle East peace plan 

 

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

As long as it's on the field of play and not around the table I am fine with the issues, does your expanded SL also include protecting teams from relegation by closing the door as in a closed shop on any other team being 'promoted? It will be a very bold step for the RFL/SL to take such a decision they would be aware of alienating at least 5 clubs and their fans, and yes even the guy's who put their hard earned into their clubs. 

SL have decided that there are 8 clubs in the Championship who are worthy of a consideration to fill the 12th spot by allowing them the opportunity to submit an application those clubs must be deemed to have 'potential' if a closed shop is ever under consideration and becomes the format then all that potential for tbose clubs will be wiped out, will the guy's who finance the club's carry on, will the fan's still turn up?

If Bradford, London or Toulouse are the choice of 12th position and as some suggest they should be given protection from relegation, I think we will be heading down the road of a closed shop again, a huge sigh of relief for some SL clubs but I think irreparable damage will be done to the sport. 

I don't think it should be a dichotomy.

I think its a bit overstating it with 8 to be honest Harry. If we follow the narrative that they want Bradford in this is really the only way they could have done it by extending the initial criteria, but anyway I don't think its a major debate point.

I think a closed shop, either de jure or de facto, is incoming. Next year is effectively that de facto for 11 teams given the set up they're giving team 12. The only team we've seen manage to come up and stay up is a team that were relegated only the year prior and stormed the championship. Even then they look amongst the most vulnerable. 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

It does make you wonder why they need a month ? , I'm sure it could be done in a day if they really tried , this isn't the Good Friday agreement , or the middle East peace plan 

 

Suggesting perhaps then that they are wracking their brains to make Odsal work...

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I would tend to agree, but I would equally point out that the people previously behind that financial mismanagement have long since gone. Andrew Chalmers, Omar Khan and Chris Caisley were never Bradford Bulls and Bradford Bulls were never Andrew Chalmers, Omar Khan or Chris Caisley.

Depending on your definition of "recent", clubs like Wakefield have a "recent history of financial mismanagement", yet Michael Carter plays a key role in crunching the numbers for SLE. Salford have this season been deducted "points" for financial issues caused by the previous owner. 

I understand, and I say this as no Bulls fan, that there is a section of support that want to see the Bulls punished / pay the price / rot in purgatory for their previous misdeeds, but I don't think that's a productive way to deal with any club.

The club should be judged on the merits of its business plan and credentials today, as well as its prospects for the future - not on the actions of individuals who have long since run into the sunset. Even on the basis of that, I would say that the club isn't ready for Super League, but I do understand the argument for saying that a strong Bradford would be an asset to the league. 

Bradford Bulls in a 15,000 modern stadium ( that they get income from ) would be a massive asset to SL and RL in this country 

Bradford Bulls languishing in a crumbling Odsal or sofa surfing in Dewsbury would not be any sort of asset to SL and RL in this country , or indeed Bradford Bulls either 

[Harry Stottle]

11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think a closed shop, either de jure or de facto, is incoming

Do you consider as I do there will be consequences to the game if that becomes a fact? 

[Oxford]

18 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Suggesting perhaps then that they are wracking their brains to make Odsal work...

I'd pay money to see them wracking ...

[GUBRATS]

20 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Suggesting perhaps then that they are wracking their brains to make Odsal work...

Or considering selling their souls to make Odsal ' work ' ?

[whatmichaelsays]

11 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Bradford Bulls in a 15,000 modern stadium ( that they get income from ) would be a massive asset to SL and RL in this country 

Bradford Bulls languishing in a crumbling Odsal or sofa surfing in Dewsbury would not be any sort of asset to SL and RL in this country , or indeed Bradford Bulls either 

I agree. There is an awful lot of potential for a strong Bradford club. 

The problem is that what we have today is not a strong Bradford club and, I would argue, the current structures of the game make it difficult to get Bradford where they can and need to be. 

[Tommygilf]

17 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Do you consider as I do there will be consequences to the game if that becomes a fact? 

Absolutely and not all are good. Though would you prefer the illusion of opportunity as it is now that works effectively the same?

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Or considering selling their souls to make Odsal ' work ' ?

That too. 

[Tommygilf]

19 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Bradford Bulls in a 15,000 modern stadium ( that they get income from ) would be a massive asset to SL and RL in this country 

Bradford Bulls languishing in a crumbling Odsal or sofa surfing in Dewsbury would not be any sort of asset to SL and RL in this country , or indeed Bradford Bulls either 

I think that is exactly what Elstone thinks and is one of the things he wants PE and Bradford in Super League for.

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

I think that is exactly what Elstone thinks and is one of the things he wants PE and Bradford in Super League for.

So he wants to sell other people's souls to make Odsal ( new version ) work ? 

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So he wants to sell other people's souls to make Odsal ( new version ) work ? 

I think he wants the cities that RL has a strong base in, Hull, Leeds, Salford, Wakefield and Bradford, to be strong clubs too. Arguably that includes London, Newcastle and York too. 

Seems Gary Hetherington and McManus could pose a stumbling block to that.

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think he wants the cities that RL has a strong base in, Hull, Leeds, Salford, Wakefield and Bradford, to be strong clubs too. Arguably that includes London, Newcastle and York too. 

Seems Gary Hetherington and McManus could pose a stumbling block to that.

Maybe they don't want their souls selling 

Or maybe they've already sold them , HA HA HA HAH ( you have to say that bit loud in a creepy Bealzabub type of way ) 

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Maybe they don't want their souls selling 

I think its far more simple than that

[DoubleD]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

You just want Leigh or Toulouse out of the way for the promotion push next season don't you Robin. 

I don't  want Leigh to be the choice of the 12th club, for much the same reasons as I expect you don't want it to be Fev, looking forward to crossing swords with you next season Robin.

You'll be lucky Harry.........with talk of PE, it will almost certainly become a closed shop

[Harry Stottle]

10 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

You'll be lucky Harry.........with talk of PE, it will almost certainly become a closed shop

Then I will most probably reconsider my options of what I will do on match days DD, I went throughout the Licencing period when it was in operation the last time, I will not be repeating those visits, As soon as it is announced I will commence with divorce proceedings annuling a 50+ years marriage with this sport, and in conversations with others not just at Leigh but with suppoerters of other clubs, I will be far from alone in such a decision and action.

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Then I will most probably reconsider my options of what I will do on match days DD, I went throughout the Licencing period when it was in operation the last time, I will not be repeating those visits, As soon as it is announced I will commence with divorce proceedings annuling a 50+ years marriage with this sport, and in conversations with others not just at Leigh but with suppoerters of other clubs, I will be far from alone in such a decision and action.

Shame you don't have enough progressive clubs who've seen the positives of the lower divisions in the top flight to vote it down...

[DoubleD]

8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Then I will most probably reconsider my options of what I will do on match days DD, I went throughout the Licencing period when it was in operation the last time, I will not be repeating those visits, As soon as it is announced I will commence with divorce proceedings annuling a 50+ years marriage with this sport, and in conversations with others not just at Leigh but with suppoerters of other clubs, I will be far from alone in such a decision and action.

That's the nature of life though Harry isn't it..............you can't please everyone

[Rupert Prince]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Do you consider as I do there will be consequences to the game if that becomes a fact? 

Yes.. Because after that the game can expand.

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Shame you don't have enough progressive clubs who've seen the positives of the lower divisions in the top flight to vote it down...

 

3 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

That's the nature of life though Harry isn't it..............you can't please everyone

Do you both think it will have no effect on SL if the Championship becomes - and only used to express an example - like a big extension of Cumbria, being a once successful centre of Professional Rugby League only to sink and keep it's head just above the water line, it won't happen immediately but when people start to lose interest in the Pro game it follows the same respect happens in the amatuer game, if the ambitious teams in the Championship start to flounder it will effect the whole division and subsequently the towns they hail from and the community clubs will suffer in turn that effects the player production conveyor belt, it will happen.

[Robin Evans]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

Do you both think it will have no effect on SL if the Championship becomes - and only used to express an example - like a big extension of Cumbria, being a once successful centre of Professional Rugby League only to sink and keep it's head just above the water line, it won't happen immediately but when people start to lose interest in the Pro game it follows the same respect happens in the amatuer game, if the ambitious teams in the Championship start to flounder it will effect the whole division and subsequently the towns they hail from and the community clubs will suffer in turn that effects the player production conveyor belt, it will happen.

Pretty much. I couldn't stick another licencing scenario personally. The game will contract even further. I dont think they'll be too many like us H .... folk who make it a conscious decision.

But, with hope and faith of promotion gone, crowds below SL will slowly dwindle. 

 

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Yes.. Because after that the game can expand.

To expand it needs a bouyant infrastructure, cutting off the lower divisions will not allow that, like expanding into North America and taking the 'Circus to Town' for home games it can only carry on as long as it can be supported with player's.

Even in a town like the one you come from in Wigan still probably the most successful in history of producing professional Rugby League players, they still do a great job, but I can remember and you will too when Wigan could probably field 4 teams of Wigan lads from the 1st team down to the colts, now they can't even populate the academy unless they go out scavaging for available talent in competition with the other big clubs, but they come from towns like Halifax, Dewsbury, Oldham, Leigh, and the like, as I said in the previous post if those towns lose interest because of decisions for SL to go it alone and to hell with the rest player production dries up and so will your 'expansion'.