Fri 27 Nov: SL Grand Final: Wigan Warriors v St Helens KO 8pm (Sky)

[Damien]

Its funny looking at some of the positive tweets such as the ones I posted last night from Tony Bellew. Some responses from RL fans range from you should have watched it years ago when it was so much better to if you think that's good you should watch the NRL.

That final was as good as it gets and was better than any NRL game I have seen this year. Fans of other sports never seem to constantly disparage their own game and compare its competition unfavourably with others like some RL fans always do.

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, redjonn said:

mmm, yes one to ponder

At the moment we are caught up in the emotion of the game. My opinions are probably based on those last absorbing minutes and the sheer intensity of tackling and defence.

One the emotions of the game die down and start to analyse from a overall skill levels, we may wonder about the attacking and creative finesse showed by Saints and Wigan's skill in not being able to gain more yards and possession.

Quite possibly John , if say Zaks penalty had gone over , would the game be seen as anything as exciting and intense as it is portrayed on here , I'm always wary of games with smothering defences , bottom line is it's impossible to achieve for 75 minutes unless the ref is allowing teams to be constantly offside 

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, redjonn said:

I think that's a fair summary, Wigan looked the more creative, which surprised me... Saints were a tad predicable, again surprised.

I guess in the intensity of the game the brain wasn't working so well... it was a really bad decision to take the penalty, Hardaker has improved as a goal kicker but I always have doubts remembering his earlier kicking at Leeds under pressure.  They I would assume never thought about... what if we miss and don't go out... Lomax made too many yards from when he caught it from a Wigan perspective.

It was an enthralling game to watch,  it was a game one couldn't take one's eyes off for a moment..

Yeah it was a bit like watching a football game where one side was all over the other but just couldn't break through the defence (though obviously its much harder to defend in RL). Likewise when Saints came under pressure on their line they looked more likely to concede than Wigan ever did.

It was two top class teams playing against eachother in a high intensity match. Absolutely excellent. Got the finish it deserved.

On to 2021!

[LEEDSLADGONE SOUTH]

Oopsie. Poor game apart from the last 10 seconds.  Shame there’s wasn’t 25k wiganer’s facial expressions to savour. 

[Padge]

6 minutes ago, redjonn said:

mmm, yes one to ponder

At the moment we are caught up in the emotion of the game. My opinions are probably based on those last absorbing minutes and the sheer intensity of tackling and defence.

One the emotions of the game die down and start to analyse from a overall skill levels, we may wonder about the attacking and creative finesse showed by Saints and Wigan's skill in not being able to gain more yards and possession.

Yes, given enough time rugby league fans are always capable of turning a classic into a disaster.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, LEEDSLADGONE SOUTH said:

Oopsie. Poor game apart from the last 10 seconds.  Shame there’s wasn’t 25k wiganer’s facial expressions to savour. 

Nonsense.

[Dunbar]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Its funny looking at some of the positive tweets such as the ones I posted last night from Tony Bellew. Some responses from RL fans range from you should have watched it years ago when it was so much better to if you think that's good you should watch the NRL. #

That final was as good as it gets and was better than any NRL game I have seen this year. Fans of other sports never seem to constantly disparage their own game and compare its competition unfavourably with others like some RL fans always do.

What a coincidence.

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Quite possibly John , if say Zaks penalty had gone over , would the game be seen as anything as exciting and intense as it is portrayed on here , I'm always wary of games with smothering defences , bottom line is it's impossible to achieve for 75 minutes unless the ref is allowing teams to be constantly offside 

 

[Futtocks]

28 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think it basically works as extended highlights this afternoon mate

5pm to 5:45pm, BBC2. Just after today's French game finishes live streaming, conveniently.

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, Padge said:

It was never going to go dead, having watched Hardakers kicking over the last couple of seasons I was confident it wouldn't make dead.

Believe me, I was convinced it wouldn't make it.

Do you think Lam has watched Hardakers kicking over the last couple of season's?

Every club as a back up goal kicker in the team, if Hardaker leaves the field who takes over? 

Hardaker is never a goal kicker, and on another point he is never a centre also, I thought when Joe Burgess went off and Hardaker went on the wing he played as well as I have seen him in a long time, he started as a winger and is still very much a winger, Jake Bibby is a centre yet Lam plays them both out of position, strange coaching decisions from the Coach of the Year. 

[dkw]

Great stat on twitter, Bentley made 6 less tackles than the entire Ireland RU team v England .

[Futtocks]

Just spotted this BTL comment on the Grauniad's match report: "Just watched someone in a Wigan shirt, pretending to be a chicken, running around a Waitrose in South London. A bet forfeit?"

[Exiled Wiganer]

22 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

They enjoyed it all.  I know you didn’t, but I think you have to concede that you’re massively in the minority on this one.

I didn’t enjoy it all either. It was like being Prometheus. 

[dkw]

14 minutes ago, Padge said:

Yes, given enough time rugby league fans are always capable of turning a classic into a disaster.

Its pretty pathetic isn't it, made worse by if this had been an NRL final I guarantee many would be saying it was a classic, a war of attrition, such high intensity blah blah blah....

[Exiled Wiganer]

12 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Do you think Lam has watched Hardakers kicking over the last couple of season's?

Every club as a back up goal kicker in the team, if Hardaker leaves the field who takes over? 

Hardaker is never a goal kicker, and on another point he is never a centre also, I thought when Joe Burgess went off and Hardaker went on the wing he played as well as I have seen him in a long time, he started as a winger and is still very much a winger, Jake Bibby is a centre yet Lam plays them both out of position, strange coaching decisions from the Coach of the Year. 

Bibby plays on the wing because our first choice wingers were injured. (As were 3 of our best props, for that matter.) Plus Bretherton is still out. 

[DoubleD]

19 minutes ago, Damien said:

Its funny looking at some of the positive tweets such as the ones I posted last night from Tony Bellew. Some responses from RL fans range from you should have watched it years ago when it was so much better to if you think that's good you should watch the NRL.

That final was as good as it gets and was better than any NRL game I have seen this year. Fans of other sports never seem to constantly disparage their own game and compare its competition unfavourably with others like some RL fans always do.

I’ve watched a lot of NRL this year and whilst some of the individual talent maybe better, that Grand Final was superior to any NRL or SOO game this year 

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Old Frightful said:

I know it's my club's home ground so I'm a tad biased but what a job the audio visual guys did with the stadium last night. Talking about using a facility to it's maximum potential, playing the pre match video across the white draped section of the East Stand was genius.

And although there was a strange comment about the "lack of grass" IIRC, I thought the pitch lent itself perfectly to the occasion.

All in all, it was the perfect setting for the best SL Grand Final I've seen. The RL served up was more like a throwback to 30/40 years ago when defences won matches and there were plenty of games that ended up with score lines more akin to Association Football than Rugby League.

Thanks to both Wigan and St Helens for serving up that classic, it was a privilege to witness it.

As a kid in the colts at Leigh our coach Billy Kindon used to say " Rugby League teams are only as good as the opposition allows them to be, so don't ever stop trying and take every opportunity that comes along" his words just about sum up this game.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Bibby plays on the wing because our first choice wingers were injured. (As were 3 of our best props, for that matter.) Plus Bretherton is still out. 

Yes but that is my point, Bibby is a better centre than Hardaker. 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Saints were on average the better team and really given the sheer amount of possession in Wigan's 30m throughout the game they should have been streaks ahead.

Wigan's defence was simply outstanding. 

Equally every time Wigan attacked they looked dangerous compared to Saints who were dire at finishing sets with attacking kicks. Saints seemed to focus on percentages so much they forgot about scoring tries. Wigan on the other hand were fantastic in attack, being held up, forcing drop outs and scoring etc in the 4 or 5 attempts on the saints line they had. Their main problem was that they simply didn't have many opportunities to do so.

Some of the decision making in the final 10 minutes was dumb from both sides. Lomax taking the ball wider on the 4th tackle 40 m out would have been remembered like Hardaker's missed kick had Wigan won. The decision not to go for the corner was ludicrous. Hardaker's problem was distance and that was deep and wide. The easy drop goal was there for the taking and Saint's frustrations at not breaking Wigan down were finally coming to the fore.

Yes to all that, but pray tell what is 'an easy drop goal'?

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes to all that, but pray tell what is 'an easy drop goal'?

One within 30m in front of the post, as a kick to touch would have guaranteed Wigan at 4 chances for a shot at.

[Dunbar]

OK, this post is sound crazy to start with but hear me out.

For those criticizing the the full game but praising the finale and its drama.

That Welsby try is like the final scene of An Officer And A Gentlemen when the Richard Gere character walks through the factory in his Navy whites and picks up his girlfriend and carries her out to a new life.

In isolation that scene is just cheesy and people watching it consider the movie to be soppy and romantic.  But in actuality, the whole movie is gritty and hard hitting and the final scene has impact because of what has gone before.

In isolation, Welsby's try will be seen as a bit of a fluke play with a drop goal attempt hitting the post but at the end of a game as absorbing and brutal and tense as that was it becomes a moment for the ages.  The finale has meaning because of what has gone before and you cannot judge one without consideration of the other.

[EagleEyePie]

29 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Do you think Lam has watched Hardakers kicking over the last couple of season's?

Every club as a back up goal kicker in the team, if Hardaker leaves the field who takes over? 

Hardaker is never a goal kicker, and on another point he is never a centre also, I thought when Joe Burgess went off and Hardaker went on the wing he played as well as I have seen him in a long time, he started as a winger and is still very much a winger, Jake Bibby is a centre yet Lam plays them both out of position, strange coaching decisions from the Coach of the Year. 

Hardaker has been our best centre this year and one of our best players. In fact there aren't many centres in Super League I'd swap Hardaker for. He's been strong in attack and defence and is one of the key reasons our defence has been so strong this year, especially out wide.

Bibby had his chance at centre but he couldn't force himself into the position because he didn't play well enough. He was nowhere near as good as Hardaker or Gildart. He only made the side because of injuries to Manfredi and Marshall and was playing on the wing because we didn't really have anyone else.

There'd be no reason to put Bibby at centre instead of Hardaker when he hasn't played anywhere near as good as Hardaker did in that position. Bibby is also far more experienced as a winger than Hardaker, given Bibby has played most of his career on the wing, unlike Hardaker.

Far from being strange coaching it was the only sensible choice.

[doc]

It was a great game. Repeat, it was a great game. 

If it was cricket everyone would get a MBE.

If it was union they'd make a film about it.

it was a great game.

[Adelaide Tiger]

One for us oldies.

When it showed you James Graham run across the pitch in jubilation when the TRY was giiven on the screen did it remind anyone of the time when David Pleat galloped across Maine Road when Luton avoided relegation in the 1980’s?

P.S. no idea how to put the clip of David Pleat on here

[Scubby]

I didn't watch the game, was just following on the text. If he scored under the posts on full time how did it finish 8-4? Did they decline the kick or miss the goal? 

[Harry Stottle]

11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

One within 30m in front of the post, as a kick to touch would have guaranteed Wigan at 4 chances for a shot at.

So no onrushing defence especially in a game as tense as this one? The defending team will just stand back and admire the effort.