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42 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

I can think of 3 hotels that offer those types of facilities off the top of my head that are considerably more accessible from the M1 than BV.

Gracious,three competing venues.

You'll be telling me next that there are three pubs in Wakefield and perhaps three restraunts. If thats the competition,Belle Vue should do nicely.

 

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Over to you Cas. Get your water colours out

In reality, they've had 20 years head start. It was clear they were not getting a new stadium and hence were resigned to making the best of what they had. Not knocking them, they've done an excellent

From my POV, yes. It just smacks a lot... that the club did what it asked and got nowhere, whereas trinity and cas have horrible run down places and in Trinity's case, poor on field performance and fi

7 hours ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

Until its built there will always be scepticism. The funding is reliant upon a developer who has form for getting what they need and reneging upon their obligations. With it being just the one stand and a face lift of another, with a new pitch and flood lights, its certainly more realistic than a full new stadium and the timing for work is next off season all being well. 

As I keep saying, time will tell. AFAIK were not entering a licence period so the stadium upgrade will be irrelevant to Trinity's continue presence in the top flight. That will be up to Chester and co. The notion that this is just a guise to maintain top flight status is child like logic.

This is the point... spend millions on facilities and then get relegated. 

Clubs never generated money when they had the oppertumity and should have charged properly for attendance and invested.  How else was these grounds built in the first place?  The game has been under capitalised, under invested.

We need new capital and we must invest it, and we must protect those clubs that are creating the investment... the Competition... and abolish P&R.  Can it support that investment (where we to get it) into 3 teams in Wakefield and 2 in Wigan and Hull?   

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59 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

This is the point... spend millions on facilities and then get relegated. 

Clubs never generated money when they had the oppertumity and should have charged properly for attendance and invested.  How else was these grounds built in the first place?  The game has been under capitalised, under invested.

We need new capital and we must invest it, and we must protect those clubs that are creating the investment... the Competition... and abolish P&R.  Can it support that investment (where we to get it) into 3 teams in Wakefield and 2 in Wigan and Hull?   

Its gonna have to. That seems to be where the game is played in the northern hemisphere, mostly. 

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1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

This is the point... spend millions on facilities and then get relegated. 

Clubs never generated money when they had the oppertumity and should have charged properly for attendance and invested.  How else was these grounds built in the first place?  The game has been under capitalised, under invested.

We need new capital and we must invest it, and we must protect those clubs that are creating the investment... the Competition... and abolish P&R.  Can it support that investment (where we to get it) into 3 teams in Wakefield and 2 in Wigan and Hull?   

In a surprisingly large number of cases, by the fans, with no health and safety, using landfill/spoil/refuse/ash/cinders to build the terracing, in their own time, for no money.

That ship (quite rightly) sailed some time ago.

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13 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

 If the 3 professional sports clubs in Wakefield agreed to share I’m sure the council would build them one, but they won’t.

No they wouldn’t!

Wakefield Councils actions over the last 2 decades have been highly questionable, some suggest downright dishonest. It’s not that they haven’t funded a stadium (or 3) it’s that they’ve schemed behind closed doors to actively prevent a stadium being built. In the case of Newmarket they used the need for a stadium to get planning permission on Green Belt land then seemed to collude with the developer to help them avoid their obligations.

They're worse than the old Doncaster Council!

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11 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

In reality, they've had 20 years head start. It was clear they were not getting a new stadium and hence were resigned to making the best of what they had. Not knocking them, they've done an excellent job.

However, both cas and wakey always had the tease of the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow in the perpetual plans for new stadia. Why would you throw money into a decrepit stadium when a brand new replacement was just around the corner?  

The sky money argument is a red herring. If you want to stay in SL you need to spend it on players to be competitive. Particularly if your other sources of income are limited. Fev would have done exactly the same if they'd been promoted.  

There was a period of how many years that had licensing? Where Wakefield & Castleford were confirmed to be in the top division.

 

2008 RFL Wakefield & District Young Volunteer of the Year

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5 hours ago, Chris Taylor said:

There was a period of how many years that had licensing? Where Wakefield & Castleford were confirmed to be in the top division.

 

I'm not sure I understand the question. It feels like it's rhetorical, but I don't get the point you're trying to make.

Licensing was from 2009-2014.

Overview Licensing

2009-2011 details

2012-2014 details

Have Featherstone ever had plans to move to a new stadium?

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15 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Ah, British exceptionalism!

Now I understand.

Well, yes. But I don't think you can pretend it's an issue that will go away and everyone will happily co-tenet at new grounds.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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10 hours ago, OMEGA said:

No they wouldn’t!

Wakefield Councils actions over the last 2 decades have been highly questionable, some suggest downright dishonest. It’s not that they haven’t funded a stadium (or 3) it’s that they’ve schemed behind closed doors to actively prevent a stadium being built. In the case of Newmarket they used the need for a stadium to get planning permission on Green Belt land then seemed to collude with the developer to help them avoid their obligations.

They're worse than the old Doncaster Council!

This is fake news. Wakefield Council have not schemed to prevent a stadium being built.

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5 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

I'm not sure I understand the question. It feels like it's rhetorical, but I don't get the point you're trying to make.

Licensing was from 2009-2014.

Overview Licensing

2009-2011 details

2012-2014 details

Have Featherstone ever had plans to move to a new stadium?

don't get the point you're trying to make.really the point is when you were free from relegation you could have spent some of your funding on the ground instead of over the hill aussies  and while were on it

who's idea was it to build the benidorm flats in stead of a proper grandstand 🏨 🤣

as for FEV'S plans to move to a new stadium? no why would we unlike bell  vue the  ground in middle of town  next to railway station  so in ideal spot

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5 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

I'm not sure I understand the question. It feels like it's rhetorical, but I don't get the point you're trying to make.

Licensing was from 2009-2014.

Overview Licensing

2009-2011 details

2012-2014 details

Have Featherstone ever had plans to move to a new stadium?

No. They also pulled their finger out and got on with developing their stadium themselves rather than jumping on any passing band wagon. As I've already said, Cas have been getting a new ground for nearly 50 years and Wake probably aren't far behind but, as yet, not a single brick has been laid. 

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35 minutes ago, POR said:

really the point is when you were free from relegation you could have spent some of your funding on the ground

No other SL club has done this though apart from maybe Leeds so it is effectively holding these two clubs to a standard they could never meet. Spend money which all clubs use to have a competitive squad on huge infrastructure projects? The tv money simply isn't enough in Rugby League to do this without very quickly getting yourself relegated.

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23 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

 

The sky money argument is a red herring. If you want to stay in SL you need to spend it on players to be competitive. Particularly if your other sources of income are limited. Fev would have done exactly the same if they'd been promoted.  

no they wouldn't when FEV were removed from the top division to make way for PSG and london they were given an extra one off payment from the RFL  round about 200k instead of spending it on players  they built the new all singing and dancing family stand  to fall in line with FRAMING THE FUTURE 🤣🤣🤣🤣  

and the two new stands  we got from scarborough no central funding was used  we used our own money actually as it happened it was such a good deal we couldn't say no funny thing the deal  was  there for anybody  before FEV found out so in theory both C%S and Wakey could have done the same 

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1 minute ago, M j M said:

No other SL club has done this though apart from maybe Leeds so it is effectively holding these two clubs to a standard they could never meet. Spend money which all clubs use to have a competitive squad on huge infrastructure projects? The tv money simply isn't enough in Rugby League to do this without very quickly getting yourself relegated.

The tv money simply isn't enough in Rugby League to do this without very quickly getting yourself relegated.

quite possibly but we are talking about a period of time when there was no relegation 

Spend money which all clubs use to have a competitive squad

so your telling me Wakey and HKR have spent all their money on a competitive squad🤣

 

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24 minutes ago, POR said:

no they wouldn't when FEV were removed from the top division to make way for PSG and london they were given an extra one off payment from the RFL  round about 200k instead of spending it on players  they built the new all singing and dancing family stand  to fall in line with FRAMING THE FUTURE 🤣🤣🤣🤣  

and the two new stands  we got from scarborough no central funding was used  we used our own money actually as it happened it was such a good deal we couldn't say no funny thing the deal  was  there for anybody  before FEV found out so in theory both C%S and Wakey could have done the same 

The fact is we’ll never know what Fev would’ve done had they being promoted. It’s nice to think they would have invested their Sky money on infrastructure, youth set up etc but when the pressure is on to retain their SL place, I suspect like other clubs before them, they’d have blown it on the squad.

if they’d been getting stiffed every week at the bottom of SL & the fans were getting restless & crowds dropping, I’m sure the board & coach pointing out the lovely “family stand” would’ve placated them.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Morris Wanchuk said:

The fact is we’ll never know what Fev would’ve done had they being promoted. It’s nice to think they would have invested their Sky money on infrastructure, youth set up etc but when the pressure is on to retain their SL place, I suspect like other clubs before them, they’d have blown it on the squad.

if they’d been getting stiffed every week at the bottom of SL & the fans were getting restless & crowds dropping, I’m sure the board & coach pointing out the lovely “family stand” would’ve placated them.

 

 

Wakefield ARE getting stuffed most weeks and since 1998 barring the odd season they've struggled more that not.

At a time when they were safe from relegation wakey declined to invest in their infrastructure whilst fev were doing what they were asked in upgrading theirs whilst being "shut out".  This used to annoy me. It doesn't any longer. I'm past caring now.

I remember one of the selling points of licencing was that clubs would be able to invest without having to spend ridiculous amounts on players to stay up.

 

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39 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Wakefield ARE getting stuffed most weeks and since 1998 barring the odd season they've struggled more that not.

At a time when they were safe from relegation wakey declined to invest in their infrastructure whilst fev were doing what they were asked in upgrading theirs whilst being "shut out".  This used to annoy me. It doesn't any longer. I'm past caring now.

I remember one of the selling points of licencing was that clubs would be able to invest without having to spend ridiculous amounts on players to stay up.

 

but as a fan of a club that was shafted by complete redesign of the leagues when they were promised (and indeed as a new club needed) stability, if I was a director of (any) RL club I wouldn't think I was safe just because there was licensing. Less so now actually given all the twists, turns and out of the blue changes to structure we've had since the last there was licensing.

I'd be very tempted, regardless of the people arguing licensing = stability, to continue to spend money on the squad above everything else, just to be on the safe side. If they brought back licensing for say 5 years tomorrow, I'd be planning for the 'what if it gets canned after  18 months instead?' scenario.

The greatest pro of RL is the willingness the try new things, the biggest con is the inability to stick with anything. As a sport at the highest levels I sometimes think we've got the attention span of a mayfly combined with the stickability of teflon.

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36 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

but as a fan of a club that was shafted by complete redesign of the leagues when they were promised (and indeed as a new club needed) stability, if I was a director of (any) RL club I wouldn't think I was safe just because there was licensing. Less so now actually given all the twists, turns and out of the blue changes to structure we've had since the last there was licensing.

I'd be very tempted, regardless of the people arguing licensing = stability, to continue to spend money on the squad above everything else, just to be on the safe side. 

Especially when one of the key licensing criteria was on-field performance. 

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1 hour ago, Morris Wanchuk said:

, I suspect like other clubs before them, they’d have blown it on the squad.

 

 

 

what don't you understand FEV were given an extra 200k on top of central funding and could quite easily blown it on the squad. but they didn't they were told they needed to upgrade their stadium by the RFL  ala FRAMING THE FUTURE  so that's what they did 

they could quite easily said NO and spent the extra 200K on out of date aussies and now be sitting pretty in SL playing out of a stadium like bell vue and wheldon road👍

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3 minutes ago, POR said:

what don't you understand FEV were given an extra 200k on top of central funding and could quite easily blown it on the squad. but they didn't they were told they needed to upgrade their stadium by the RFL  ala FRAMING THE FUTURE  so that's what they did 

they could quite easily said NO and spent the extra 200K on out of date aussies and now be sitting pretty in SL playing out of a stadium like bell vue and wheldon road👍

Yep and because they were in the championship or whatever it was called back then, the club made the wise decision to invest that 200k on the stadium and credit to them, rather than chasing SL which other clubs have done.

However they were able to make that decision, because they were not in SL. It wouldn’t have been that straightforward a decision if they’d been facing the drop!

Cas and Wakey are both now living now with the consequences of bad decisions and bad luck over the years. It’s easy to throw stones at both these clubs re stadia but the fact remains we’ll never know what course of action Fev would’ve taken if they’d have been in their shoes.

 

 

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2 hours ago, POR said:

don't get the point you're trying to make.really the point is when you were free from relegation you could have spent some of your funding on the ground instead of over the hill aussies  and while were on it

who's idea was it to build the benidorm flats in stead of a proper grandstand 🏨 🤣

as for FEV'S plans to move to a new stadium? no why would we unlike bell  vue the  ground in middle of town  next to railway station  so in ideal spot

OK, how long were we 'free from relegation'? It was 2 x 3-year stints, but we were perpetually under threat for the whole time as on both occasions we were the bottom ranked club (allegedly).

How long does it take to renovate a stadium if you have no money? How long did it take Fev? 

How long does it take to build a competitive team for SL? It's not a tap you can turn on & off at will, ask Leigh or Widnes or London. 

As has been stated, if we'd reduced the quality of the squad and resigned to being tonked by 60 points each week, do you think we would have got a licence for the second tranche? One of the criteria was adding to the competition. Also, average attendances - after 3 seasons of getting hammered every week, what would that have been?

Equally if we could have saved a million a year for the 3 years, how much of a stadium could we have built for that? (taking into the consideration the state of BV).

It's a dog eat dog world in SL. Rising above the bottom half of the table is a very difficult task, particularly on a limited budget.

Trinity were the 3rd best team in Wakefield throughout the 80s and 90s. Mismanagement and poor choices (along with a fair dollop of bad luck) have haunted the club since those times up until the current regime took over. 

What I meant by Featherstone had 20 years' head start is that they had no intention of moving from POR and limited funds, so the challenge was clear from the start. That they did something is commendable. 

Wakefield (& Cas) were always chasing the rainbow. It's easy to say with hindsight that they should have just worked on renovating the current stadia (which is ironically where we have ended up), but that was never an option and the pressure to follow other SL clubs and move to a new, purpose-built stadium was intense. In both clubs' cases, the stars never quite aligned to get it over the line. Both BV and WR were in much worse condition than POR and it was always said renovating BV would be more expensive than building a new stadium form scratch.

The number one aim of Wakefield Trinity for the last 20 years was to remain in SL and so far, by the skin of our teeth on several occasions, we have achieved that. If there were ever 14 (or 12) other clubs closer to whatever the criteria/requirements were at the time, then they would have been relegated. It's not their fault that no other clubs stepped up to the mark (a pretty low bar to be fair). If they had been relegated during that time, it would likely have been the end of the club, unlike Cas who were able to bounce back twice. 

When/if the new stand is built next year, it could be the turning point for the club after 40 years of decline and stagnation.

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46 minutes ago, POR said:

what don't you understand FEV were given an extra 200k on top of central funding and could quite easily blown it on the squad. but they didn't they were told they needed to upgrade their stadium by the RFL  ala FRAMING THE FUTURE  so that's what they did 

they could quite easily said NO and spent the extra 200K on out of date aussies and now be sitting pretty in SL playing out of a stadium like bell vue and wheldon road👍

So, do you think the club made the right decision?

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