Harry Stottle Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Scotchy1 said: Do they? in any great numbers? In financially significant numbers? https://rugbyl.blogspot.com/2019/09/historical-elite-level-attendance_23.html According to this the difference between a good fev side and rubbish one is about 600. A decent amount for their small attendances but negligible in the real scheme of things. Interesting that, if those figures are correct, and they are often referenced on this board. Fev under franchising in 2012, better attendances than a poor season in the championship like 2018. The simple fact is that promotion and relegation play little part in who attends or views what games. The value in RL and the value especially in the lower leagues isnt in jeopardy. Featherstone v Sheffield, 2012. Championship grand final. 6409. Leigh v Les Catalans 2017 million pound game. 6888. You do like to site examples with teams that have very few travelling fans, again as an observation I was at the Leigh v Catalan game it was 99.9999 per cent Leigh fans in attendance. Which I was totally surprised with considering all the support Catalan were recieving on these pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANO Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 53 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said: Every team is trying to win and will play its best players, P&R or not. With no P&R you may have some young players getting a couple of games at the end of the season where they might not have otherwise but ultimately teams play their best teams. Wigan are very rarely in a relegation scrap and bring plenty of young players through. The notion that P&R holds back young players is a myth. Haha. London would have been relegated long before the end of the season if clubs played their best teams sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDINTHEHIZZOUSE Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 34 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: You do like to site examples with teams that have very few travelling fans, again as an observation I was at the Leigh v Catalan game it was 99.9999 per cent Leigh fans in attendance. Which I was totally surprised with considering all the support Catalan were recieving on these pages. I also seem to remember it was raining armageddon style for a few hours before the match, that could have put off quite a few fans too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meast Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 6 hours ago, RigbyLuger said: If Super League had been created in 1986, would Wakefield and Huddersfield have been in because they were great twenty years before? No, that's my point! Huddersfield Giants Supporters Association Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Good luck to those involved tomorrow. I look forward to the further episodes of Groundhog Day on TotalRL Forums where we discuss licensing, promotion and relegation, Leigh Centurions, Derek Beaumont, Scotchy’s Magic Calculator “facts”, who shouldn’t be in Super League, what Super League grounds need tearing to the ground and more self interest from every level of the game from the top to the Internet dwellers on here. Can it just be March already so we can talk about something actually meaningful and interesting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Slater Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Besides being a farce in promoting them, it would also be very dangerous. Although they are capable of attracting huge support, both home and away, many of their fans appear to be the "only sing when they're winning" type, highlighted by their record low attendance of 324 when they went out of business in 1963, a fact that seems to have been brushed under the carpet. Are today's fans steadfast enough to stick with them through a season littered with heavy defeats? If not we could see a repeat of 1963 and 2017 with their third liquidation in post-war times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Slater Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 I fancied Toulouse's chances until I recently had pointed out to me that our sponsors Betfred wouldn't be very happy with another French club considering their government's opposition to gambling advertising and sponsorship in sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldbear Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Steve Slater said: Besides being a farce in promoting them, it would also be very dangerous. Although they are capable of attracting huge support, both home and away, many of their fans appear to be the "only sing when they're winning" type, highlighted by their record low attendance of 324 when they went out of business in 1963, a fact that seems to have been brushed under the carpet. Are today's fans steadfast enough to stick with them through a season littered with heavy defeats? If not we could see a repeat of 1963 and 2017 with their third liquidation in post-war times. Pretty much agree with a lot of this, the reality is that Bradfords recent boom period lasted just over 10 years, the first 10 of SL, when they won trophies, went to Wembley, won the WCC and had huge crowds, however some of this was built on Peter Deakin spotting a niche in the entertainment market that others were slower to react to, and this, plus the on field success was achieved by spending money the club did not have, hence the subsequent financial meltdowns. It is very dangerous when financially you need to win a trophy every year just to minimize losses, but that’s where Bradford very quickly found themselves. Economically the world is now a different place, the effects of COVID will impact on people’s incomes and when money is tight it needs to be spent selectively, and I’m not sure that following a team that will be way out of its depth should it be promoted is going to be so attractive. For sure initial crowds will be strong, but a few 40+ point hammerings will test the patience of the most loyal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RigbyLuger Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 2 hours ago, meast said: No, that's my point! I know, I should have quoted better. You're spot on. Many praising York seem to have adopted forgotten they new club is about the same age of the latest incarnation of the Bulls too, just have better social media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Steve Slater said: Besides being a farce in promoting them, it would also be very dangerous. Although they are capable of attracting huge support, both home and away, many of their fans appear to be the "only sing when they're winning" type, highlighted by their record low attendance of 324 when they went out of business in 1963, a fact that seems to have been brushed under the carpet. Are today's fans steadfast enough to stick with them through a season littered with heavy defeats? If not we could see a repeat of 1963 and 2017 with their third liquidation in post-war times. I think 1963 is way too far in the past to have any relevance today with regard to predicting attendances. Unfortunately most fans around in that era will not be alive anymore. The demographics have changed also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 9 hours ago, The Future is League said: How many clubs would survive without the owners putting in money. How would Warrington, Saints, Hull FC , Hull KR, Huddersfield survive without wealthy owners at Super League level, and lets not forget about clubs in the championship They would all survive just as they have before, they just wouldn’t be as good obviously. Just like Salford are doing with no rich owner and the lowest supporter base in SL Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iffleyox Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 7 hours ago, RigbyLuger said: I know, I should have quoted better. You're spot on. Many praising York seem to have adopted forgotten they new club is about the same age of the latest incarnation of the Bulls too, just have better social media. And a new ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 9 hours ago, Steve Slater said: highlighted by their record low attendance of 324 when they went out of business in 1963, Just as it's a bit ridiculous to base the Bradford seeking promotion on the one from twenty years ago, it's a bit daft to judge today's Bradford fans on a match played 57 years ago. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Thank God it will be over in a few hours , no doubt there'll be a few posts to read when I get home this afternoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldofclothofgold Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 27 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Just as it's a bit ridiculous to base the Bradford seeking promotion on the one from twenty years ago, it's a bit daft to judge today's Bradford fans on a match played 57 years ago. That 324 attendance wasnt just a one off in that era ,an era when attendencies in the sport were still quite healthy . Bradford throughout the history have reformed quite a number of times . A club from a large city having to become tenants at Dewsbury a so called smaller club in a smaller town with a decent stadium ,but Bradford have more right to play in SL because they Now have a " Lerger fan Base" than the other candidates? Soon we will be dancing the fandangoFROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.JAMIE PEACOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 56 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Just as it's a bit ridiculous to base the Bradford seeking promotion on the one from twenty years ago, it's a bit daft to judge today's Bradford fans on a match played 57 years ago. Lets focus on their recent money troubles when they couldn't pay their players and couldn't pay the lease on Odsal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumby Magic Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 15 hours ago, Simon Hall said: Huddersfield got into Super League mainly because the game was founded in a hotel there in 1895. They were promoted werent they. Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, The Future is League said: Lets focus on their recent money troubles when they couldn't pay their players and couldn't pay the lease on Odsal. ... would be my point. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramon Rojo Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Be nice if we get reasonable air time to accompany the announcement. Unfortunately I fear it'll be a case of "blink & you'll miss it". Probably wedged between the Arteta misery at Arsenal, the new Womens Golf Champion and some Pantomime Boxers. I reckon 15 seconds before Sky cuts to the Lidl adverts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcl Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 While waiting for the verdict A beautiful song about Toulouse while waiting, perhaps, to see the supporters enjoy this beautiful city O Toulouse ! www.fcl13.fr FCL XIII - Lezignan Corbieres Rugby League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henson Park Old Firm Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 10 hours ago, Steve Slater said: I fancied Toulouse's chances until I recently had pointed out to me that our sponsors Betfred wouldn't be very happy with another French club considering their government's opposition to gambling advertising and sponsorship in sport. "Toulouse would be attractive in a normal year but Covid-19 may play a part, as may the fact sponsors Betfred cannot advertise in France. It is also believed there is as yet no indication of a new French TV deal on the back of them being promoted." https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/13464705/london-broncos-to-groundshare-with-afc-wimbledon-if-promoted-back-to-super-league/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 On 12/12/2020 at 20:46, Niels said: Having watched the football on tv today I am just looking forward to the rugby starting again. Any of the teams would be more exciting to watch. I think rugby league is the only team game that is watchable without fans as a neutral. This is because the intensity is always there. I like Football but without the hype and buzz of packed stadiums it is certainly not the same and misses the crowds more than any other sport. It just shows how much the whole event helps paint a picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 11 hours ago, Steve Slater said: I fancied Toulouse's chances until I recently had pointed out to me that our sponsors Betfred wouldn't be very happy with another French club considering their government's opposition to gambling advertising and sponsorship in sport. That's coming to the UK very soon. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin James Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 minute ago, gingerjon said: That's coming to the UK very soon. No chance. It would bankrupt professional sport in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Colin James said: No chance. It would bankrupt professional sport in this country. No it wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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