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Brian Carney: RL misses talent from under its nose


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6 hours ago, DoubleD said:

It should be the clubs rather than the RFL who should be broadening their horizons on talent development. How many SL standard players have come through the setups of Cas, Hull KR, Salford, Hull FC in recent years? The problem is 2 fold, the clubs see the cost too great to bother doing..........whilst for players, the reward is low. They might make it, but it often means moving away from family and friends to earn a fairly mediocre living

Sadly some clubs would prefer to waste money on has beens and never was players from the NRL than invest in junior development

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1 hour ago, The Future is League said:

Sadly some clubs would prefer to waste money on has beens and never was players from the NRL than invest in junior development

There’s reasons for that though. I’m not saying these clubs are right or agreeing with them but when there’s relegation threatened upon teams, teams tend to throw money at the first team, by buying players both from here (of which there are many, many examples of never beens) and from Australia whilst not being prepared to blood young players and who can blame them?

Also, with the Academies, when you lose players to bigger clubs, you lose a player for nothing after putting in x years of work into players and investing however much money in them. Is it financially worth it?

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Has anyone watched an "All Ireland Rugby League Championship" Game like Longhorn RL or Cork Bulls etc? I am wondering what standard would it be equivalent too. League 1, Elite 1 of France or more NCL standard? If there was an agreed alignment there could be Elite 1 vs Irish league games if the standard made sense or even Super League Under 19s/Reserves playing against Irish opposition 

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8 hours ago, HarrogateKnights said:

Has anyone watched an "All Ireland Rugby League Championship" Game like Longhorn RL or Cork Bulls etc? I am wondering what standard would it be equivalent too. League 1, Elite 1 of France or more NCL standard? If there was an agreed alignment there could be Elite 1 vs Irish league games if the standard made sense or even Super League Under 19s/Reserves playing against Irish opposition 

Normanton knights beat the Longhorns 30-24 in the challenge cup last Jan, if that helps.

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8 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

There’s reasons for that though. I’m not saying these clubs are right or agreeing with them but when there’s relegation threatened upon teams, teams tend to throw money at the first team, by buying players both from here (of which there are many, many examples of never beens) and from Australia whilst not being prepared to blood young players and who can blame them?

Also, with the Academies, when you lose players to bigger clubs, you lose a player for nothing after putting in x years of work into players and investing however much money in them. Is it financially worth it?

We have never tried to protect or ring fence local talent in academies from poaching, so  it is just as hard to create a great academy side as it is to make a truly competitive first team.

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

Normanton knights beat the Longhorns 30-24 in the challenge cup last Jan, if that helps.

Based on that potential for NCL level. Although a great league with some quality talent if the champions of the Irish league get beat by a NCL 2? Albeit in a one off game against one of the better Sides, then investment could definitely be better spent. I would rather they looked at the North East corridor with the great work Thunder are doing up there and potential to tap/expand Scotland too. 

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8 hours ago, HarrogateKnights said:

Based on that potential for NCL level. Although a great league with some quality talent if the champions of the Irish league get beat by a NCL 2? Albeit in a one off game against one of the better Sides, then investment could definitely be better spent. I would rather they looked at the North East corridor with the great work Thunder are doing up there and potential to tap/expand Scotland too. 

You were a bit ambitious comparing the Irish league to elite 1 in all fairness. I mean there are players being payed in elite 1 whereas it's a minor miracle for the longhorns to be even in the cc and competing against the likes of Normanton Knights. Just shows the incredible work being done at the longhorns.

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1 minute ago, Keith989 said:

You were a bit ambitious comparing the Irish league to elite 1 in all fairness. I mean there are players being payed in elite 1 whereas it's a minor miracle for the longhorns to be even in the cc and competing against the likes of Normanton Knights. Just shows the incredible work being done at the longhorns.

Fair one, in all honesty didn't know anything about the standard in Ireland. The French Elite one seems to be pushing the RFL League 1 now I suppose if they pooled their resources and played as Munster, Ulster etc maybe linked to the GAA clubs so you would only have 4 Ireland teams it could work. If only someone was ambitious and created a Euroleague 🤐😉🤔

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1 hour ago, HarrogateKnights said:

Based on that potential for NCL level. Although a great league with some quality talent if the champions of the Irish league get beat by a NCL 2? Albeit in a one off game against one of the better Sides, then investment could definitely be better spent. I would rather they looked at the North East corridor with the great work Thunder are doing up there and potential to tap/expand Scotland too. 

You’re making a false comparison though. You’re comparing teams when we’re talking about potential individual talent that may not be being identified. More so, this should be focused on juniors rather than open age

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12 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

Arguably ARU’s downfall was selling TV rights to non free to air channels so kids were not exposed to top class union on a weekly basis. Hard to think of another sport that would make that mistake isnt it.

 

On 04/12/2020 at 01:28, langpark said:

Yes I was surprised at reading this to be honest. I rarely disagree with Brian Carney. But to suggest spending (our very limited) money and resources on poaching talent, to me, is about as unambitious and short-soghted as you can get.

Just look at the ARU, they spent a fortune on poach RL talent like Wendell Sailor, Mat Rogers, Tuqiri and Folau, yet invested nothing in grassroots. That is what largely led to their the current mess they are in.

Both of what you say was part of the problem.  But personally, and I said this at the time, when the fear around League circles was that ` it (union) might take over` was rife, once the initial hype surrounding union going professional and the 2003 WC died down it would dawn on the wider viewing public, and  those who traditionally watched League or afl, that was a lot left to be desired about union as a viewing spectacle. For Leagies like myself it was apparent that union had fixed none of the problems that had blighted League, and for afl followers it didn`t have much to offer at all.

I would go as far to say that had union showed any real potential as a mass appeal spectator sport the FTA stations would have fought a lot harder to get  a piece of the action, like with League and afl, instead wisely they left it, and as they may have expected, to slowly wither on the Pay TV vine. Where even there it hasn`t been able to  hold onto its base audience and now only about 60 000 viewers each week can stand it.

 

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5 hours ago, Celt said:

You were doing great up to this point.

Scotland is fantasy stuff. 

What is it about this board and folk getting ahead of themselves?

People in Scotland.... Do not follow Rugby League. Let them work away with 1 development officer, maintain a presence, and cater for the enthusiasts.

But please forget about the fantasy of the sport somehow "taking off" there. It won't. It is seen as an English curiosity. 

Any chance you will ever post a comment that doesn't slate either England or the UK?

No sure why you even come on here as you seem to hate everything yo do with British RL and specifically English people - for some reason- maybe look in the mirror marra and ask yourself why you even come on here if you hate the majority of the people on here.

Do you even follow RL as most of your posts seem to slate the GG - to which you seem to delight in.

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7 hours ago, Celt said:

You were doing great up to this point.

Scotland is fantasy stuff. 

What is it about this board and folk getting ahead of themselves?

People in Scotland.... Do not follow Rugby League. Let them work away with 1 development officer, maintain a presence, and cater for the enthusiasts.

But please forget about the fantasy of the sport somehow "taking off" there. It won't. It is seen as an English curiosity. 

Are you not Scottish?

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8 hours ago, Celt said:

Scotland is fantasy stuff. 

What is it about this board and folk getting ahead of themselves?

People in Scotland.... Do not follow Rugby League. Let them work away with 1 development officer, maintain a presence, and cater for the enthusiasts.

I still can`t get out of my head though the post someone made on here, when I first joined, of an old newspaper clipping relating to how a meeting of the Northern Union clubs, or whatever the League was called back then, had rejected a bid from a team in Edinburgh to join their competition. Having said that however, "What`s done cannot be undone ", but at the very least we can learn.

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39 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

I still can`t get out of my head though the post someone made on here, when I first joined, of an old newspaper clipping relating to how a meeting of the Northern Union clubs, or whatever the League was called back then, had rejected a bid from a team in Edinburgh to join their competition. Having said that however, "What`s done cannot be undone ", but at the very least we can learn.

That is interesting. I'd be interested to read that if it can be found anywhere.

To be honest, I don't pass judgement too easily on this sort of thing. Things were so different back then in 1895. The very first automobile had only just been invented, so I am sure trips to Edinburgh were hardly the easiest or cheapest if trips back then. 

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2 hours ago, langpark said:

That is interesting. I'd be interested to read that if it can be found anywhere.

To be honest, I don't pass judgement too easily on this sort of thing. Things were so different back then in 1895. The very first automobile had only just been invented, so I am sure trips to Edinburgh were hardly the easiest or cheapest if trips back then. 

Here you go.

Rugby League clubs decline Glasgow application (1953).jpg

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17 minutes ago, Celt said:

But that's it I"m afraid Rocket. People on here don't want to learn. (This is not having a go at yourself, or your post!)

I have been posting on here for about 18 years, and honestly, the same fantasy posts were here 5,10 years ago... There is a definite unwillingness to address reality, and the situation Rugby League is in.

The reason I get so annoyed with it, is that it really holds the sport back, and it does come across as an arrogance (from... I am sorry to say... A predominantly English membership).

Your example of a union club in Edinburgh wanting to join in the 1800s..... It is clearly nonsense relating to this day and age. If there was ever going to be a Scottish team playing in the RFL, they clearly would not be a union club switching over. In fact... When was the last time anywhere, that a union club switched over to Rugby League?

There is currently a discussion on another thread about Ireland, where posters are suggesting that the local "park footy" league is comparable to League 1 FFS ... Again, complete fantasy stuff!

Instead of trying to shoehorn teams in from areas who have zero interest in Rugby League, the RFL needs to make sure it is actually recognised (ie: not invisible) in cities like Sheffield, Liverpool, Carlisle, even Manchester which are adjacent to (or even "in"!) the heartlands of the game.

Widen that belt across the M62, so that instead of snaking along a motorway route, there is a network of clubs right across the North from Cumbria to South Yorkshire/Derbyshire. The reason they need to concentrate on this is so they can plug in to their own network. They should easily be able to get 2 community clubs in Sheffield (for example) due to:

1. Relatively close proximity to thriving leagues to participate in, clubs who they can play against

2. Numbers of people from "traditional" RL towns who live there.

Honestly... If they can't get schools/youth teams playing the game in Sheffield, then why on earth are they wasting time and effort on Dublin?

This is absolutely not to say that Scotland/Ireland etc should be abandoned, but as I say elsewhere, allowed to potter along with a development officer, catering for enthusiasts. Hopefully they can continue to slowly grow. Scotland could not even organise a domestic 4 team league for most of the last few years. A "rugby" nation... with 5M population, could not get 4 mens teams. That is what I mean when I say people in Scotland don't follow Rugby League. 

The thought of the sport "taking off" in these countries though, when 95% of people in Manchester don't care about it, is just laughable. Yet that is what some fantasists on here persistently seem to suggest will happen. (Could be Scotland, Ireland.... Last month it was Cameroon, where one poster said they could become the "PNG of Africa"... RL is the national sport of PNG. It is clearly nonsense, yet people on here get offended when you point that out to them).

 

 

That's some copy and past....🤣🤣

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On 03/12/2020 at 14:01, langpark said:

Sharing with Trailfinders with Ealing has yielded Armitage for us plus a few of our  academy players have union backgrounds 

Not sure it costs much at all to scout talent from another sport? The Union academies like Sarries churn out 1000s of players and the vast majority don't get a contract. 

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On 03/12/2020 at 20:29, sweaty craiq said:

Scottish RU squad normally has more non born Scots than born. This is an eye opener though Foreign-Born Players in 2018 Six Nations - Americas Rugby News

This is quite incredible. And to think so many RL fans tell us we can’t have a true international game due to foreign born players. It happens in all sports and needs to be fully embraced in rugby league, I find it very concerning Wane has publicly stated he dreams of having a pure English born side. Players can qualify through their parents birth or residency and have every right to represent the country on those grounds.

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7 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

This is quite incredible. And to think so many RL fans tell us we can’t have a true international game due to foreign born players. It happens in all sports and needs to be fully embraced in rugby league, I find it very concerning Wane has publicly stated he dreams of having a pure English born side. Players can qualify through their parents birth or residency and have every right to represent the country on those grounds.

Totally agree, it would be nice to have English born players but that's not how the modern world is.

UK athletics is rife with foreign born GB athletes - even a certain Sir Mo.... for years the English cricket team have had success with many players from outside these shores and the same as the RU team. The Irish Football team has basically been a British Isles team for the past 30 years and they support them like their own.

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9 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

This is quite incredible. And to think so many RL fans tell us we can’t have a true international game due to foreign born players. It happens in all sports and needs to be fully embraced in rugby league, I find it very concerning Wane has publicly stated he dreams of having a pure English born side. Players can qualify through their parents birth or residency and have every right to represent the country on those grounds.

There can't be an international game due to the clubs ruling the roost leaving no room to have several internationals during the season like union and football. The international game is therefore seen as secondary to the club game and that is shown especially in Aus. To be honest the heritage players and dual national players are the least of the worries at the minute, in fact it works quite well with the PIs.

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