THE RED ROOSTER Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 Linky https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby-league/wigan-warriors-made-loss-ps885k-last-year-3061206 Quote When the pinch comes the common people will turn out to be more intelligent than the clever ones. I certainly hope so. George Orwell You either own NFTs or women’s phone numbers but not both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 9 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said: Linky https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby-league/wigan-warriors-made-loss-ps885k-last-year-3061206 This part seems quite unbelievable the accounts – lodged with Companies House – were for the year up to the end of November ‘19. The Warriors expect to improve its financial performance for 2020 – despite the “pervasive impact” of the Covid-19 pandemic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin James Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 If they had sponsors whose deal expired after that November 2019 date who have since renegotiated and paid up front it's quite possible they have improved their accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 It'd be good if these articles actually told you anything other than the headline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 42 minutes ago, Colin James said: If they had sponsors whose deal expired after that November 2019 date who have since renegotiated and paid up front it's quite possible they have improved their accounts. Not quite sure what you mean but when people pay is irrelevant to whether a company reports a profit or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearTheVee Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 27 minutes ago, Dave T said: It'd be good if these articles actually told you anything other than the headline. You can read the accounts here: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00174692/filing-history Quite a big improvement on the prior year, so some of the cost-cutting is moving them in the right direction. Only so much of that you can do on that front though so without large sources of other income / materially increased sponsorship it's hard to see how it improves too much more. Wigan needs to find a way to grow income which probably comes down to people through the turnstiles given the limited scope to drive other revenues given the stadium ownership. Losses in the last couple of years have been propped up by inbound transfer fees also; I expect Wigan fans won't want to see losing players to the NRL as part of the business model but perhaps that is just the sporting and commercial reality for all clubs. On the flip side, they will have been hurt less by Covid than some of the stadium owner/operator clubs. I expect Saints' financial performance for 2020 calendar year will look pretty ugly given the lack of non-matchday income, cancellation of Little Mix concert etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Toppy Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, FearTheVee said: On the flip side, they will have been hurt less by Covid than some of the stadium owner/operator clubs. I expect Saints' financial performance for 2020 calendar year will look pretty ugly given the lack of non-matchday income, cancellation of Little Mix concert etc. Not necessarily, unless they managed to agree a temporary release then they would still have been paying rent but having no income from things like gate receipts. Saints furloughed most of their stadium staff and the stadium was essentially sat idle. St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookey Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Sky Sports had an interview with the MD of Exeter Chiefs,were he stated that his Club was losing approx £1 mill / month due to covid. Losses throughout sport will be very significant,from football,through union and league,cricket,horse racing etc. Everyone has their hands out saying they need money but surprisingly no one seems keen on paying it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatmichaelsays Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Hetherington was forecasting lost income of £4m over the course of two years in the early stages of the pandemic. Leeds these days are arguably more of a hospitality business with a rugby team on the side, rather than a rugby club, so they're massively exposed to the downturn in hospitality and corporate events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 52 minutes ago, cookey said: Sky Sports had an interview with the MD of Exeter Chiefs,were he stated that his Club was losing approx £1 mill / month due to covid. Losses throughout sport will be very significant,from football,through union and league,cricket,horse racing etc. Everyone has their hands out saying they need money but surprisingly no one seems keen on paying it back. Exeter turnover 20m with 200k fans attending pa - thats some t/o at £100 per fan per game - they get about 6m from TV/RFU but dont know about European TV income. So the 1m pm during covid does stack up and must be a huge concern. Meanwhile Leigh have just posted 2020 accounts early and all other UK SL wannabees seem up to 2019 bar Bradford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin James Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 hours ago, M j M said: Not quite sure what you mean but when people pay is irrelevant to whether a company reports a profit or not. Sponsor signs two year deal. Team includes payment in year one accounts and announces a profit. Year two the payment is not included, team announces a loss. Year three a new sponsor comes on board and the team announces a profit. Prestone recently announced their sponsorship had come to an end, Wigan could include the new sponsor in the 2020 accounts and show a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookey Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said: Exeter turnover 20m with 200k fans attending pa - thats some t/o at £100 per fan per game - they get about 6m from TV/RFU but dont know about European TV income. So the 1m pm during covid does stack up and must be a huge concern. Meanwhile Leigh have just posted 2020 accounts early and all other UK SL wannabees seem up to 2019 bar Bradford. Yes,they also have a very substantial conference facility,which will effectively have been closed over lock down - similar to Leeds at Headingley. Sometimes they have been referred to as a Conference/Banqueting business,with a rugby club attacheed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 52 minutes ago, Colin James said: Sponsor signs two year deal. Team includes payment in year one accounts and announces a profit. Year two the payment is not included, team announces a loss. Year three a new sponsor comes on board and the team announces a profit. That would violate the matching principle upon which accounts are prepared. If you sponsor a club for two years, regardless of when you pay it it would be split in half with 50% going to profit in each of the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alffi 7 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Wigan & Saints significant losses, Warrington & Leeds just about profitable in their latest set of accounts. These will make tough reading in 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 3 hours ago, cookey said: Yes,they also have a very substantial conference facility,which will effectively have been closed over lock down - similar to Leeds at Headingley. Sometimes they have been referred to as a Conference/Banqueting business,with a rugby club attacheed! Exeter’s other income is 2m assume this is the conference facility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearTheVee Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 27 minutes ago, Alffi 7 said: Wigan & Saints significant losses, Warrington & Leeds just about profitable in their latest set of accounts. These will make tough reading in 12 months. Saints to October 2019 were a £300k operating loss after depreciaton charges of £420k (so positive EBITDA for a company which is essentially third party debt free) - I wouldn't tag that as a significant loss to be honest, but it is fair to say 2019 revenues will have been helped by a succesful season on the pitch. 2020 numbers will indeed be very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 3 hours ago, Colin James said: Sponsor signs two year deal. Team includes payment in year one accounts and announces a profit. Year two the payment is not included, team announces a loss. The second year would be held as deferred income on the balance sheet and only realised in the P&L in the year to which it relates. Cash receipt and profit realisation are two completely different things. I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookey Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I suspect you are correct. They also have a very major corporate sponsor,which is a private company,as opposed to a public company. This means that their sponsorship is not really on normal 'market terms'. The guy can give them what he wants,without the worry of shareholders asking if the sponsorship is fair and reasonable. 1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said: Exeter’s other income is 2m assume this is the conference facility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yipyee Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 9 hours ago, Saint Toppy said: Not necessarily, unless they managed to agree a temporary release then they would still have been paying rent but having no income from things like gate receipts. Saints furloughed most of their stadium staff and the stadium was essentially sat idle. I am sure i recall watching quite a few live games on tv... So not that idol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeF Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 8 hours ago, sweaty craiq said: Exeter turnover 20m with 200k fans attending pa - thats some t/o at £100 per fan per game - they get about 6m from TV/RFU but dont know about European TV income. So the 1m pm during covid does stack up and must be a huge concern. Meanwhile Leigh have just posted 2020 accounts early and all other UK SL wannabees seem up to 2019 bar Bradford. By early do you mean before the deadline which actually isn’t early especially as last year’s were registered earlier in the equivalent year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeF Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 8 hours ago, Colin James said: Sponsor signs two year deal. Team includes payment in year one accounts and announces a profit. Year two the payment is not included, team announces a loss. Year three a new sponsor comes on board and the team announces a profit. Prestone recently announced their sponsorship had come to an end, Wigan could include the new sponsor in the 2020 accounts and show a profit. You are confusing cash with profit. Two very different things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 10 hours ago, Saint Toppy said: Not necessarily, unless they managed to agree a temporary release then they would still have been paying rent but having no income from things like gate receipts. Saints furloughed most of their stadium staff and the stadium was essentially sat idle. The Wigan Rugby stadium deal is they pay a peppercorn rent and then percentage of gate when games are played, if the rugby club doesn't play they don't pay. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 WIgan have also been spending heavily on moving their HQ and training facilities from Central Park to Robin Park, that will improve income streams from food/drink etc. on match days. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del capo Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Padge said: WIgan have also been spending heavily on moving their HQ and training facilities from Central Park to Robin Park, that will improve income streams from food/drink etc. on match days. Wigan paid 3.5m for that move and I have to say it is one of the best deals they have struck. You only have to look around it to see what they have got. They also have the use of the next door Stadium on a pay as you go basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Did we find out what the deal is with that Mike Danson squillionaire guy? Has he bought into Wigan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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