Jersey design .... original England one and Wigan

[nadera78]

15 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Original Northern Union shirt was red, yellow and white stripes with I think white shorts and navy socks. 

Think one of the Leeds Unis did some kind of spectral analysis on an old photo and found the yellow in the shirt, everyone presumed it was just red and white hoops. 

They made a number of the shirts to buy.

 

That's a very striking shirt. I'm not convinced we could use it for England, but it may be worth tinkering with to see if we could find something distinctively England RL. That said, we could perhaps use that shirt as our alternate kit for the RLWC next year?

More broadly, I don't think I've ever seen an England RL shirt that I fell in love with, although I did like the 2010 centenary red & white hooped one. So many of the England shirts have looked gimmicky, especially with the use of St George's cross on the chest. We need to find a design that is ours and that we stick to, like the Kiwis and Kangaroos have.

[nadera78]

17 minutes ago, Celt said:

I am no England fan, but to me the solution is obvious.

Why don't England play in white, with a Double Vee in red?

They played in something similar in the mid 90s European Championships, (so have the history) and it is completely logical... Like NZ or Australia, but in England's colours. Additionally, it is unmistakable as an RL jersey.

To me it is a no-brainer, bit the response seems to always be that folk from Wigan won't buy it because it looks (a bit) like St Helens.

Who cares if folk from Wigan buy it or not? Is the sum-total of the RFL's ambitions? Fair enough if it is... Keep wearing that daft StGeorge flag thing, which looks like it is out of the bargain bin at Sports Direct.

 

We've noticed!

As to the rest, I agree 100%. 

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, nadera78 said:

 So many of the England shirts have looked gimmicky, especially with the use of St George's cross on the chest. We need to find a design that is ours and that we stick to, like the Kiwis and Kangaroos have.

The GB jersey ticked all those boxes for decades, and its revival last year was well-received.

Unfortunately the change in the national team from GB to England coincided with the era when administrators started deluding themselves that regular jersey changes was the way to maximise revenue from replica sales. Typical short-term, unimaginative thinking.

It`s surely more lucrative long-term to establish a meaningful jersey as traditional, then devise and sell related merchandise on the back of that. Successes and failures with accessories are ephemeral, but when the playing jersey either lacks identity through constant change, or when any of the new models look absurd, lasting damage is done to the brand.

[nadera78]

3 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The GB jersey ticked all those boxes for decades, and its revival last year was well-received.

Unfortunately the change in the national team from GB to England coincided with the era when administrators started deluding themselves that regular jersey changes was the way to maximise revenue from replica sales. Typical short-term, unimaginative thinking.

It`s surely more lucrative long-term to establish a meaningful jersey as traditional, then devise and sell related merchandise on the back of that. Successes and failures with accessories are ephemeral, but when the playing jersey either lacks identity through constant change, or when any of the new models look absurd, lasting damage is done to the brand.

Well, yeah, alongside nostalgia, the shirt and badge were the sole reasons the GB team was resurrected. And even the shirt they came up with in the end wasn't that great a version of the classic one.

[chisholm]

9 hours ago, Celt said:

I would have no idea (or interest) in what that looks like.

Me neither, but they did do a good job of hosting the Barla national cup finals many years ago. Not as good as holding it in Blackpool but still a great weekend away.

[Dr Tim Whatley]

12 hours ago, burnleywelsh said:

Looks like a Fylde RU Shirt to me....

Had never even heard of Fylde RU until reading this post, but lucky them if so!

[iffleyox]

50 minutes ago, Dr Tim Whatley said:

Had never even heard of Fylde RU until reading this post, but lucky them if so!

Historically (i.e. pre 1995) a big club - the only one Bill Beaumont ever played for. Mark Preston signed for Wigan from them years ago.

[Padge]

On 12/12/2020 at 11:05, sweaty craiq said:

Leigh were/are always Cherry from 1878, borrowed ours at start of 1885 season the club you claim to be formed in 1872 died and became today’s club much later in 1879 as Wasps or 1881 when going back to Wigan fc 

You're wrong.

[The Art of Hand and Foot]

On 12/12/2020 at 07:00, The Partisan said:

Genuine curiousity question ..

Who had the striped red and white design first .....England or Wigan ..and did it ever cause any issues ?  Ask as recall seeing the England team in hoops for the test v Australia a few years back. 

Ditto Wakefield and Great Britain and blue and red chevrons ? 

 

 

 

 

In the 1910 tour of Australia, England,  with a handful of Welsh players and one scot,  did in fact play in red hooped jerseys. Now bear in mind, the game was being run and organised from Oldham by Joseph Platt secretary of the Northern Union as well as Oldham.  Oldham played in red hooped jerseys with blue shorts.  Could it be that Joseph Platt organised the kit from the same supplier as Oldham?

[DI Keith Fowler]

8 hours ago, nadera78 said:

That's a very striking shirt. I'm not convinced we could use it for England, but it may be worth tinkering with to see if we could find something distinctively England RL. That said, we could perhaps use that shirt as our alternate kit for the RLWC next year?

More broadly, I don't think I've ever seen an England RL shirt that I fell in love with, although I did like the 2010 centenary red & white hooped one. So many of the England shirts have looked gimmicky, especially with the use of St George's cross on the chest. We need to find a design that is ours and that we stick to, like the Kiwis and Kangaroos have.

Personally I'd just remove the yellow as it's not something really used for any England sporting team, and keep the red bands at that thickness so you have a pinstripe type effect. Somewhat like the 9s jersey.

Then you've got something that is a bit more unique than a plain white shirt with red trim which England RU really own now, and something less tacky than a big St George's cross which as someone said looks like a sports direct produced unofficial item. 

It just gives it a bit of historical backup and tradition that England are just simply lacking right now. Non-League fans struggle to understand the difference between England and Great Britain and to be honest I'd struggle to make an argument that it's not confusing. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by DI Keith Fowler

[Leyther_Matt]

Every international team should have a chevron as far as I’m concerned. And I’d have absolutely no qualms at England essentially claiming the GB lion and the white with blue & red chevrons. Maybe even have a mini tournament with Scotland and Wales for the right to claim the lion. 

[burnleywelsh]

1 hour ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Maybe even have a mini tournament with Scotland and Wales for the right to claim the lion. 

Why would we want to “claim the lion ?”  No thanks, you can keep it.

[DI Keith Fowler]

Just now, burnleywelsh said:

Why would we want to “claim the lion ?”  No thanks, you can keep it.

I know, I don't really know why Wales, Scotland or Ireland would want to claim the colours blue and red and a lion badge. 

[Leyther_Matt]

11 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

I know, I don't really know why Wales, Scotland or Ireland would want to claim the colours blue and red and a lion badge. 

Other than the Scotland football team playing in a blue & red kit with a lion badge, of course.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

On 12/12/2020 at 07:00, The Partisan said:

Genuine curiousity question ..

Who had the striped red and white design first .....England or Wigan ..and did it ever cause any issues ?  Ask as recall seeing the England team in hoops for the test v Australia a few years back. 

Ditto Wakefield and Great Britain and blue and red chevrons ? 

 

 

 

 

A bass in my village church choir is a Forest of Dean lad by birth and went to school in Gloucester, where he was also a boy chorister at the cathedral.  He is a big Gloucester RU fan.  Their followers call them 'the Cherry and Whites' and he maintains they predate Wigan in their use of these colours, but I have no idea if this is true, and I suspect he is just winding me up and doesn't know for sure either!  I understand the Gloucester club was formed in 1873.

[Padge]

32 minutes ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

A bass in my village church choir is a Forest of Dean lad by birth and went to school in Gloucester, where he was also a boy chorister at the cathedral.  He is a big Gloucester RU fan.  Their followers call them 'the Cherry and Whites' and he maintains they predate Wigan in their use of these colours, but I have no idea if this is true, and I suspect he is just winding me up and doesn't know for sure either!  I understand the Gloucester club was formed in 1873.

In 1873 Wigan played in blue & white.

[unapologetic pedant]

2 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Other than the Scotland football team playing in a blue & red kit with a lion badge, of course.

I think Millwall play in blue and are called the Lions because of Scottish connections.

[unapologetic pedant]

22 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Personally I'd just remove the yellow as it's not something really used for any England sporting team, and keep the red bands at that thickness so you have a pinstripe type effect. Somewhat like the 9s jersey.

There was something about this England shirt that didn`t do it for me. Maybe if the red bands were double, like the white ones on a maroon background of the classic Manly-Warringah jersey.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

1 hour ago, Padge said:

In 1873 Wigan played in blue & white.

Good point, but it's not clear to me whether Gloucester always played in cherry and white or only adopted it later.

[Padge]

5 hours ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

Good point, but it's not clear to me whether Gloucester always played in cherry and white or only adopted it later.

Gloucester Heritage Website has this to say on the subject. Oddly Gloucester share the same made up tale as Wigan of another nearby club loaning them shirts.

GLOUCESTER CLUB COLOURS

There is no evidence that Gloucester played in cherry and white during the first twenty years of the Club’s existence, but there is a good deal of evidence of them wearing jerseys in different colours. When the Gloucester Club played its first match on 4^th October 1873 against the College (King’s School) on the College ground at Dean’s Walk, there is no contemporary record of the colours they played in. However at the time of the Club’s jubilee fifty years later, it was reminisced that Gloucester had played in black and blue jerseys. Much later (in Dave King’s history of the Club) it was asserted that these were the only available colours, but the source for this information has not been identified. A crude sketch of the first match was published in the Magpie a few days after the event, but shows all but five of the players in a scrummage (more like a melee) in the middle of the pitch, and their jerseys are blank.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Padge

[DI Keith Fowler]

7 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Other than the Scotland football team playing in a blue & red kit with a lion badge, of course.

As soon as I wrote it I realised but thought I might get away with it.